I'm not sure where Mr Sanchez gets his numbers from but based on the numbers TM has been supplied since I've been a TMM, the number of Full Time Equivalents (FTEs) in the School Dept peaked in FY09 at 1200 and has declined every fiscal year since then to a total of 1157 in FY12.

Can someone please help me understand the role of the CFO? Doesn't TM vote on a total budget, and even specific items, that are recommended by the CFO as fiscally responsible? Are TM members not getting enough information, or is this just another example of fiscal errors coming to light? (I also totally agree that it should be an early agenda item.) As for the school budget and it's headcount - I thought it was very clear that one of the goals of the last school budget was to restore funding for positions and programs that were cut.

Phil....So I take it you're against the seniors getting any break?
Hopefully those that get the break are the ones who really need it.
I hate seeing people get breaks that can pay the bills but take unfair advantage of the town. It happens all the time in the town, but no one seems to care.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Whole video here of Tax meeting here. Made sure we got everybody even Sue taking notes....
http://tinyurl.com/858wl3f

Phil...You bring up some good points! That's why I said if they really qualify.
I'm sure there will be some who work around it so it benefits them even though they don't deserve it.
You said....."The schools are deteriorating before our eyes and the SENIORS don't care. They just want Tax Breaks for themselves".
I don't agree! You want to see schools that are deteriorated go to the big cities and see what's happening there. Framingham is a paradise and seems to be doing just fine....the kids have a roof over their heads, the rooms are heated, buses are running etc etc....
The only problem is they want more, and the MORE isn't coming as much as they would like.
As for the senior citizens....I was with a buddy of mine a month or so ago doing a wellness check on an elderly woman who wasn't answering her phone.
It was that pretty cold stretch we had....she was all bundled up in her freezing cold house, she was a few hours from being dead.....she was taken to the hospital and is doing well now. Point is, she has no money to run the heat, because of all the other bills etc....Not a nice way to finish out her life would you say.
How many more are just like her.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Phil - I met a handful of seniors in my area this weekend who, I am supremely confident, do not have million dollar homes in Florida. In fact, a couple of them can't even leave the house due to disabilities, and one had to reduce her food budget to cover the modest increase in her taxes. These people have lived and worked in Framingham for 40, 50, and 60 years. They have paid their taxes, raised their families, sent their children to school, contributed to the local economy, and now have to choose which of their basic necessities they must forego in order to pay their taxes. If I need a few extra dollars to pay my taxes, I can get a second job, and often have done that. They do not have a way to supplement their incomes if they need a few extra dollars; hence the term “fixed” income. And as far as the weekday morning library openings, and the LIFT bus existing to help them get here and there, I think our seniors deserve that.
Finally, if I might be so bold, I’m a little taken aback with the disrespectful tone you are taking. It wouldn’t hurt you to speak a little more respectfully of our seniors.

Phil - continuation - with regard to the single mother situation you mention - in fact, the single mother working at Walmart and Burger King does get tax breaks that you or I don’t get. I won’t get too deeply into it, but as a start, filing as “Head of Household”, which a single mother is entitled to do, entitles the filer to a higher standard deduction and lower tax rate. Outside of the tax benefits, there are also financial aid programs for additional schooling so that the single mother can increase her skills and income. I can also tell you from personal experience that the difference in tax rates is not nominal – when I re-married several years, I was a little shocked at the difference in the amount of tax I was now required to pay.

Phil - is investment income or dividends counted into the total income equation? I ask because I'm trying to figure out how a senior with a million-dollar home affords all of the utilities, upkeep and taxes, and could still qualify for a tax break. And you're right, I'm advocating specifically for the people I met in my precinct, so I'm seeing only one end of the spectrum. That said, how do we ensure that the breaks are applied to those who really are in dire need? And, on a related topic, how do we ensure that there is a greater mix of ages and stations in life governing the town? What are your thoughts?

Ok Phil....try this one.....Illegal immigrant is working (iilegally) gets taxes taken out. He has no family to speak.
He claims 5 in his household when he only has two. He files his taxes and gets ALL his money back. He claims he's actually poor and gets all the other benefits that go along with being poor. A true SMOC graduate....
Nice!
Jim@ccfiile.com

You're going to bring immigration issues into a discussion about tax breaks for seniors?

Susan Petroni, are you the editor? Didn't you once give this character a 'Final Warning' about bringing immigration into every article? Are you the editor or not? Banish this clown.

Phil....It's all related whether you want to except it or not.
I can't seem to figure you out! You are against the illegals on one point but defend them on another ....weird.....
Jim@ccfiile.com

Thank you for posting! I've been a Framingham resident since 1995. I'm proud to call our town home but the tax-related decisions as of late have really left a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. Our town cannot be run to mirror the Federal Government. Our town cannot continue to operate on such shaky decisions such as making commercial property taxes go down and single family home taxes go up. When will it end? Do we want our town to be bankrupt and filled with shame and embarrassment as too many MA towns are now? I already know people selling and moving out of town...there's nothing keeping them here.

Apparently Phil, probably not his real name, so WHO really is a liar? Put your real name and become a real person.
As to bringing up illegal immigration into all this "tax" discussion. Sure that would make a significant difference in the town and how it collects money. Phil seems to be someone who might be hiring them or having something else going on. What is it Phil? Why do you get so upset about the Illegals? You seem to protect them at every post.
So Phil, post your real name, we wouldn't want to be charged with lying would we?

As to the taxes, the BOS did their best to stop a huge liquor establishment come on RTE 30 to protect establishments on the south side. They lost a lot of tax revenue there. I call that politics. The building still remains empty. You could have a hundred liquor stores in Framingham and they all would do well especially those in the neighborhoods with rampant illegal immigration.

Joe

Mr. Vinall: Your comments seem totally opposite from the truth. Your views indicate to me that you have not been viewing or are informed about matters that have been discussed at Town Meeting. For the past three years as a Town Meeting Member, the most vocal group and discussions have focused on the need for increasing monies for the school system. It is everyone's right to speak up about matters that are of concern to them. Over these years, I don't ever recall any effort by individuals or officials to speak up and address the needs of less fortunate people and Seniors. I don't recall any Articles presented at Town Meeting specifically to help the less fortunate and Seniors. For the first time, we are speaking out.

George:

"For the past three years as a Town Meeting Member, the most vocal group and discussions have focused on the need for increasing monies for the school system"

This is a classic mis-categorization. What Herb and so many others have been working hard for has been to restore funding that has been cut out of the school budget over the last several years, causing major cuts to programs that have had a direct negative effect on the education of the students. The issue has not been to increase the budget for new programs or staff as you imply.

We are one town, when economic times are bad we all feel it. Seniors, students, tax payers, renters, all feel the pain we are experiencing. We can only get through it by working together.

Hi George, I am not sure what you mean by reaching you through Frambors. Emails directed to one person have never been allowed on that email list. Patch is a pretty appropriate place for this discussion, especially since I am responding to your comment to Phil (whomever that may be).

I noticed Jon Fetherston who is running for the 7th Middlesex State Rep in November. Does he care more for Framingham than Sannicandro? Maybe, he does. I certainly know how much he has put into Ashland in the last few years and I think he would carry that energy, experience and caring to the whole 7th Middlesex District which is Ashland and part of Framingham.

How about a change?

I would think Framingham needs a lot more help than Ashland.
We have serious issues here that need serious solutions.
As it is now and has been for the last several years the town continues
on it's spiral down hill and some of our Reps are just watching it all happen.
Nice to get paid to look the other way.
Jim@ccfiile.com

Phil whoever he is said
>>Unlike other posters to this site I do not wish to spread misinformation<<
>>
Ya...Like your real name. Is that "misinformation"? Are you real or are you Memorex?
Wouldn't want to "lie" to anyone here would we PHIL VINALL....
Joe

To: Phil Vinall and others, correction is needed regarding Seniors. Only those who qualify are eligible. You should look at what the requirements are before you speak. Many seniors are slighty above the financial line and don't qualify and will live their lives very modesty.
You're a real dreamer if you think a senior with a half million dollar home in Framingham and a million dollar home in Florida qualifys.That's about as stupid a statement that I have ever heard.
Before you continue to rant about seniors please read the requirements for a senior tax break.

Frank Genova

For Mr Vinall, I have another idea, all us seniors should move out of town. Our homes will then be sold to new residents with 2.3 kids on average. With the cost of educating a child at $15,000 that would put a trememndous burden on the school, just imagine what the new costs to the school system would be.

My three children have been out of the school system for over thirty (30) years yet every quarter I submit a tax payment that this year totals almost $7,000.00. Multiply that by the many seniors in the same boat that are not using the school system. We are contributing a hell-of- a- lot money to the town and school,system while living on Social Security and what's left of our 401 K's.
Also seniors have time on their hand so they VOLUNTEER so people like you can have services that might not otherwisebe available. Please take a walk through Framingham Union Hospital and see how many seniors volunteer their time, ask nothing in return but just to help, because they love their town.
Mr. Vinall you publically owe every senion in town an APOLOGY. I'm anxiously awaiting.

Right Frank, you're not ASKING for anything in return, you're TAKING a big fat tax break, on top of the ones you already have.

I don't see any explanation of why ONLY SENIORS get the property tax break. LOTS of folks are hurting. But the SENIOR over-represented Board of Selectmen and the SENIOR over-represented Town Meeting are only giving the break to SENIORS.

I did read the qualifications on the BIG FAT TAX BREAKS FOR SENIORS. It qualifications are just AGE and INCOME. Nothing about ASSETS. So a 66 year old owning MILLION dollar homes could qualify. And a young couple with young kids just scrapping to get by would get no break at all. Why not? Because they're not represented on the BOS or in TM. Those places are controlled by SELFISH OLD PEOPLE.

@"Phil" Don't you think you should use your real name, instead of an alias?

@Susan There is no Phil Vinall in the Framingham resident directory, and anyone who uses the term "LIFT" bus has been around for a long time. He's not real. Can't you delete his comments? Some of them must cross the civility lines.

@Phil, if you want to be accurate and not spread misinformation, you should re-read the qualifications for the Property tax programs for seniors.

1. Senior Tax Exemption provides a $500 exemption; however, the applicant's Asset/estate value cannot exceed $40, 000 single /$55,000 married (excluding the value of the home you live in). No million dollar second homes permitted here.

2. Senior Property Tax Work Off Program provides a $725 tax reduction in exchange for part-time WORK in Town departments. It is not free: it is compensation for work.

3. Aid to the Elderly and Disabled Program is funded by donations not taxpayers..

4. Senior Tax Deferral allows seniors defer payment of a part or all of the property tax (at 8% annual interest) until the house is sold. True, there is no asset limit, but the money eventually comes to the Town treasury with interest. It doesn't come free.

Phil Vinall doesn't exist as Phil Vinall....So he pretty much has lied to Sue and all of us here. He said he lived on Cochituate Rd where they are doing road work....Nicer try Phil... There is no Phil Vinall living on any road in Framingham.
I just checked out the latest 2010 resident listing book at the town hall.
Phil If you can be honest about who you are then what good are you?
You must have something to hide if you're using an alias.
Jim@ccfiile.com

There are multiple problems. Yes, the assessments are messed up. The Assessor and the CFO have made a mess of the revenue stream. And they didn't mention it before Town Meeting approved the CFO recommended spending last spring including the CFO's recommended 2.5% Property Tax Rate increase. Lots of problems.

The Senior led solution benefits ONLY SENIORS. Why not help those who really need help, regardless of age? No, the Seniors only want to help themselves.

I'll repeat, a SENIOR in a MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE can get a BIG TAX BREAK. And a poor young couple, in a $200,000 ranch, will get NO BREAK. That's plain wrong.

And I never said I lived on Cochituate Rd. What would it matter if I did?

What kind of twisted logic says it's more important to help a 66 year old in a million dollar house than a young couple facing foreclosure with 2 pre school age kids?

@"Phil" That "Resident Listing" referenced by Jim R. is available in PDF format, which of course, is searchable. You are not in it.

You ask, "What kind of twisted logic says it's more important to help a 66 year old in a million dollar house than a young couple facing foreclosure with 2 preschool age kids?"

That would be state law. http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleIX/Chapter59/Section5 It may not be fair to give the same tax break to everyone, but it is the law. Talk to your legislator if you don't like it.

"I'll repeat, a SENIOR in a MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE can get a BIG TAX BREAK." That's not actually what you said, but, moving right along.

Do you know how many seniors actually take advantage of the "BIG" tax break ($500--not even enough to cover this year's average tax increase) in Framingham? 15--according to the background material in the warrant. Really, do you think those are the million-dollar property owners? They would pay almost $17,000 in taxes, and there currently is a $15,000 income limit.

You should try applying both facts and logic to your arguments.

Frank is right. You owe the seniors of this community an apology.

Phil...is still trying to pull the wool over us. He knows too much about Framingham to not be a resident, but he is not the resident he reports to be.
jim@ccfiile.com

I meant to say "It may not be fair NOT to give the same tax break to everyone, but it is the law. Talk to your legislator if you don't like it." Sorry.

Phil is ill informed and wants to incite the people in Framingham with untruths. He and his rantings can be blocked out if a number of us highlight "Flag as inappropriate."

The SENIORS are giving THEMSELVES a BIG TAX BREAK. 4 out of 5 of the members of the Board of Selectmen are SENIORS. 150+ of the 230 Town Meeting members are SENIORS. And this BIG TAX BREAK is JUST FOR SENIORS. I'm supposed to apologize to them? For what? Calling attention to what's happening. The SENIORS are the ones who need to apologize to the rest of us for screwing us. Lots of people in town could use the 500-1000 bucks. It is a big deal.

May I remind you that at the same time this is happening one of the BOS just got his son a job on the DPW ahead of dozens of other applicants. Meanwhile a Library Trustee just appointed herself a full-time high-paid positon in the Library. Complete with benefits of course. This is just in the last few weeks. There is no accountability. In Framingham, those in power are using it to HELP THEMSELVES.

WE encourage a open discussion here at Framingham Patch. We ask that everyone use their real names and do not use an alias like Susan75. WE also encourage the majority of Patch readers to monitor the site for what is appropriate commenting. I cannot babysit comments 365 days a year, 24 hours a day; so if you think someone's comment is inappropriate please flag it.

We don't limit discussion to just Framingham residents. I know there are individuals who work in Framingham, but live elsewhere who comment. You don't have to live in Framingham to comment.

That said, I know several of you have question a poster in this thread, and whether he lives in Framingham.

Phil: you do have a lot of knowledge about Framingham, yet as you can see more than a handful of Town Meeting members and other town leaders have questioned your residency.

You are not required to tell us where you live in town, but if you could clarify for the others - I think you will find discussion will be more "open & honest." If you would prefer not to identify your address publicly, feel free to email me at susan.petroni@patch.com.

We love discussion here at Patch -- but we ask that people use their real names so conversation online can be just like having a conversation face-to-face.

"Phil" (since we both know that isn't your name), you need to work on your math and your facts. Only Ginger and Charlie are over 65. Really, you have no idea what their income situation is. You have no idea whether they would qualify for the benefit or not. The Library Trustee took a part-time job, not a full-time job.

George is right.

You are one to talk about accountability. You are like a sniper who likes to take anonymous pot shots without being personally accountable for your statements. Maybe you do skeet shooting at the local gun club too. Except you obviously like to shoot with a machine gun, since you just keep shooting bullets until they hit something, hopefully.

Why don't you try again, this time signing up for Patch with your real name?

Phil....... or whoever you are.....Town Meeting still has to vote on it.
So come to town meeting that night and have your say.
Jim@ccfiile.com

I'm not Jim Rizoli, but I play Jim Rizoli on TV...So don't blame me if you don't like I say here. Phil and I are going to start hanging out together.
Jim@ccfiile.com (not really)

@Phil..."May I remind you that at the same time this is happening one of the BOS just got his son a job on the DPW ahead of dozens of other applicants"

Actually his son in law....
Jim@ccfiile.com

Still waiting for an explanation about why ONLY SENIORS get this big new tax break, but you'd all rather distract from that point. Are ONLY SENIORS hurting?

OLD PEOPLE making rules for OLD PEOPLE to get $500-$1000 break. If you're a working stiff struggling to get by, forget it, you'll get no help from the OLD PEOPLE. They just care about themselves.

Focus on the point I'm making folks, Why is this break just for Seniors? Why are we helping Seniors sitting on great big homes on the north side and not helping non Seniors busting their butts to stay in run down ranches on the south side? Hint: take a look at who controls the power in Framingham.

Focus on the answers, Phil the anonymous poster who wants everyone to be accountable except himself/herself and presumes that all seniors are only out for themselves.

I did answer your question. IT IS STATE LAW.

In particular, this state law: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleIX/Chapter59/Section5 Specifically, Clauses 41B, 41C and 17C

The Town does not have the option to offer the same exemption to all other taxpayers with similar income profiles. It may not be fair, but it is state law. Talk to your legislators if you don't like it.

If you think you would qualify for the exemptions if you were age eligible, then perhaps you might try applying for food stamps or fuel assistance, which have relatively generous eligibility guidelines, especially for families. Or Free and reduced lunches for the kids. There are plenty of income assistance programs out there for people with kids too.

Does State Law say that we have to give BIG TAX BREAKS to SENIORS? Or is it that the SENIORS who control everything are GIVING THEMSLEVES a BIG TAX BREAK?

It's comical how everything in town favors one group of the population, the SENIORS. Look at the libraries. You think books and kids right? But funding limitations restrict the hours the libraries can be open. No matter, the libraries, both the main and the branch, remain open each weekday morning and afernoon, 100% staffed - when the kids are in school. Weekend, holiday and summer hours - when the kids could be using the libraries - are extremely limited. Parks & Recs? Lots of stuff for SENIORS. Less for kids. Framingham is the only town around without any town sponsored youth sports leagues - they're all private. We just spent a bundle on Cushing Park, right behind the Senior home. But a year ago we couldn't afford to mow the ballfields in town where the (privately supported) youth sports teams play.

In Framingham the SENIORS get EVERYTHING. We can cut hundreds of teachers from the schools. Kids can walk 4-miles a day to/from school. We can have classes of 30+ kids in the middle schools. Everybody's taxes can get jacked way up. But the SENIORS get a TAX BREAK. Just them. Actually THE SENIORS give THE SENIORS a TAX BREAK!

Well "Phil" or whoever you are, Jim R. was right. You should show up to town meeting, write to your town meeting members and make your case. People are more likely to listen to what you say if you have the courage to associate your name with your very strong opinions. If you don't do that, you really have no right to complain about the outcome if it isn't the one you want.

@Susan..."Phil" hasn't even tried to deny he is using an alias. Can't you just can him? He wouldn't be nearly so insulting and offensive if he was forced to use his real name. Civility is the #1 reason to require using a real name, and community building is #2.

E-democracy.org which pioneered setting standards for local issues forums,has guidelines that states:
Key Rule #1: All posts must be signed by the author’s full and actual name
Since this is a local community discussion, it is important for people to understand that those contributing to the discussion are their friends, neighbours and people within the community.Signing each post helps reinforce this point and helps build the online community. In addition, it encourages people to be thoughtful in their writing because they must take responsibility for their posts. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, research has shown that “anonymity”online is one of the biggest contributors to the harsh dialogue and “flame wars” that are so typical of other forms of online discussion."

Why have rules you won't enforce?

You want me silenced because I bring up things that are unpleasant. Which part of what I said isn't true?

Phil....Here's the deal....We are going to vote to give you the biggest tax break, you don't have to pay ANY taxes for the rest of your life.
Just let us know who you are so we can make a warrant article for it.
Jim@ccfiile.com

You have a whole string of inaccuracies pointed out by myself and others in this commentary. I'm not wasting any more time responding to you if you don't identify yourself, nor on posting to Patch if it doesn't enforce its rules.

One thing I do agree with you on: the rules should be the same for everyone. I find it a bit hypocritical that you claim an exemption from having to post under your own name while complaining about the exemptions others want on the tax code. I can't take you seriously.

@Phil.."You want me silenced because I bring up things that are unpleasant. Which part of what I said isn't true"

Phil, old buddy ole pal.....Where have you been....LOL this happens to me all the time, but I still use my real name.
Jim@ccfiile.com

distract distract distract

yet the truth remains

the SENIORS make the rules in this town to favor the SENIORS

the library is not for kids, or working parents, it's for SENIORS .. otherwise why would the majority of the hours BOTH BRANCHES are open be when the kids are in school?

parks & recs is not for kids, or working parents, it's for SENIORS .. otherwise why would we be sending buses to casinos, yet not have a town league IN ANY SPORT for the kids?

and SENIORS get a BIG TAX BREAK .. while poor working people don't

How can all this be? Well, it can be because it's SENIORS making all the RULES and POLICIES.

Actually Phi (the ghost)...the libraries are where the SMOC, and homeless people hang out...check it out.
Jim@ccfiile.com

@Phil - I just emailed you. I hope you will respond back.

Phil not, Maybe the Kindergarten kids should be making all the rules and policies.
Let's see, candy for breakfast, lunch and dinner,. Children can get drivers licenses and marry when they are five years old.....Hows that?

Joe Rizoli

I just received the ballot for Town Meeting members for April 3.
Framingham Patch will post the complete list tomorrow.
***
Precincts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9 and 17 will have four, 3 year term seats on their ballots.

Precincts 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 18 will have all 12 seats on the ballots, due to the new redistricting lines.

Phil of Baloney, how about you and me meeting at the library for a nice chat about old people, libraries, and life in general?
Jim@ccfiile.com

After watching this argument for some time can I summarize some themes I have observed?

- People are upset about the property assessments and increase in taxes, and policies that seem to favor those with "special" circumstances, while in place for very good reasons, are frustrating to some.
- People would like to see an equitable distribution of town amenities and services, and when money is scarce, the ones that are highly visible or large budget items attract the most criticism.
- That quality public education is a critical component of a strong town, but due to being such a large budget item can cause people to take sides, often by who is a current consumer of school services vs who is "done" or otherwise not using the system.
- The current form of town government, while intended to provide greater representation, is perceived as neither an efficient form of governing nor representative of the overall diversity of the residents.
- That the suspicion of incompetence and/or fraud within local government (and beyond) inflames everyone and makes all of the above conversations even more challenging as it further degrades trust in leadership and further demoralizes both residents and public employees.

Did I miss anything?

So, now that that is done, who would like to start identifying specific actionable items that could positively impact any or all of the above and begin making a way forward together?

Phil...Anytime.
Always willing to chat with the town folk. How will I identify you? Mustache, beard, hat dark glasses, long trench coat?
Jim@ccfiile.com

Phil and Jim - both your last comments were inappropriate!! I would hope you would self delete before I need to step in ...

@ Phil - you have identified three actionable items here. So, let's brainstorm some next steps can you take:
- Would you, or anyone you respect, be willing to run for Town Meeting? If so, can you start a write-in campaign?
- Can you find out how to petition for a change in hours at the Library? Can you do some research to find out what is involved, what are the current traffic patterns, are there any labor considerations, etc.?
- Can you find out the process to start a town sponsored rec program? Do you already know any would-be volunteer coaches, and can you create an outline of suggested teams with volunteer names already attached to begin the conversation?

I see both of you ignored me - so I just deleted your comments.
Do not post like that again - the comments were INAPPROPRIATE and completely off topic!

Folks.............have you ever been out and about and see a three year old throw himself on the ground, screaming and kicking and shouting the same thing over and over? And the more people who try to help the little terror, the more agitated he gets?

Now, have you ever seen a similar situation where people just ignore and calmly walk around the hellion, letting him scream himself into exhaustion and finally realize that SCREAMING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER (caps QUITE deliberate) isn't going to A) make it true or make it happen and B) get anyone to actually pay attention? And what happens? The little snot dripper finally gets up off the ground and scurries away.

Which do you all think will work best here?

@ Brenda - add "comedienne" to your vast list of accomplishments! Very well said.

And the moderator allows this comment to stand as 'appropriate'. I seem to have stumbled onto some kind of protected turf. I'll leave you to it.

You are reaping the seeds that you sowed, "Phil." One downside of using an alias is that it invites a negative response from others, especially when you don't use it responsibly.

You chose to use an alias against list rules; you chose to use the alias as a shield to make many, many accusations and blanket statements about the unstated motivations of all seniors and anyone serving in a public capacity; you chose to use an intentionally obnoxious all caps tone intended to provoke an emotional response from others; and you chose to throw out all kinds of emotional reasoning and informational misstatements instead of checking your facts. Given that...

You can complain all you want about Brenda's and Susan's conclusions, but the body of work you have left behind does not logically lead one to the conclusion that there is a responsible clear-thinking adult behind it, let alone one willing to become involved or do anything but whine and complain. In fact, you can't do anything but that from behind an alias.

Pulling anything useful out of your remarks on this thread is like trying to separate the wheat from the chaff when it is buried in an avalanche of manure. It shouldn't have taken Diane patiently leading you by the nose for you to figure out a better way of expressing yourself.

I do find it amusing that you want everyone to follow the rules and be nice, except for you.

@Diane - I totally agree and if and when I actually SEE some universally applied "positive behaviour" I will gladly accept it.

@Phil - I just noticed how the spelling of you last name changed. Will we soon see posts from "Phil Villan" on this board?