LETTER: Stopping Illegal Immigration Would Benefit Framingham Schools
Rizoli: "Taxes relate to expenditures. One of the reasons why our taxes are going up is directly related to the illegal aliens and their children in the school system."
There is a saying that I'm sure you've heard often.…“there is an elephant in the room." It generally relates to something that is very obvious yet some people don’t see it. In Framingham, we have an elephant in the room that is so obvious you would think the people were blind not to see it.
School expenditures relate directly to children in the school. The more children in the school the more we pay, it's only common sense.
In Framingham we have around 1,500 or children of illegal aliens attending our schools. In fact one school, Woodrow Wilson has around 500 alone. So to simplify this ... It cost around $16,000 dollars to educate each child in the schools today. If you multiply this cost times the 1,500 children in the schools it comes up to $24 million. Now if we didn't have these 1,500 children attending school wouldn't it make sense we wouldn’t be spending that 24 million dollars? We wouldn't need to hire the extra teachers and we might not even need the Woodrow Wilson School. So that fact alone would be a huge cost savings.
Of course the teachers wouldn't be too happy about it, and I honestly think that is where the problem is. The more teachers you can bring into the union means a big payday for both. That’s why you never hear the unions/teachers speaking out against the illegal aliens because they benefit from them immensely, the more kids they have the more money spent on teachers, unions, and schools to educate them.
The school budget is a big part of the towns expenditures, and the one department some people would hate to see trimmed down. Imagine knocking 24 million dollars off the school budget, and what that savings that would mean to the taxpayers. If you have no kids and your neighbor has three who would be spending more money? Pretty simple, unless your neighbor with three kids is starving them and not clothing them.
I'm not a math wiz or an economic major, but I know that you can't spend any more than you make, and when it comes to our town expenditures, we sometimes miss that most important point.
Taxes relate to expenditures. One of the reasons why our taxes are going up is directly related to the illegal aliens and their children in the school system. Of course, some will say that if the illegal alien children weren’t here, there would be other children to take their place. To that I say baloney! Who would be the ones to replace them ... American children? I don’t think so? It’s not happening now. The new growth is not American Children.
Most of the new children coming into the school system as I look at it, seem to be illegal immigrant children.
So if we stopped illegal immigration then we would stop a huge benefiter of our tax money, those illegal aliens who bring their children into our school system. To deflect the problem to home assessment values is not telling the whole story. I think when people talk about taxes and assessments the illegal alien issues should be part of the conversation.
I don’t think the town, or the school dept, have been completely honest about all if this. We the people deserve to know how our money is being spent and on whom. It's called honest accountability.
How we fix the problem is another story for another time.
Jim Rizoli
Town Meeting Member
Precinct 14 Chair
Joe Rizoli
1:09 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Let's disarm some people right away here. Jim certainly isn't against ANY child getting an education. The problem here is that Framingham has been progressively targeted for about 15 years by people who found their pot of gold. That pot of gold was that they could either birth a child in Framingham or bring a child into Framingham even though the PARENTS are NOT legally permitted to be here.
Since nothing was done to the first few families that pulled off this scam a "telephone", "telegraph" "tell a woman" message was sent back to these people homelands and the marathon run headed for Framingham, at one point even MORE than the marathon in numbers. This influx of people took over apartment buildings and complete neighborhoods. The result was and still is that Framingham will pay for their health care, their legal fees, and their children to be in the school system FREE.
Interesting note being that in their countries they admit that they have to pay for schooling, it is NOT FREE, especially in Brazil. So for these "immigrants" coming here, Framingham has become the road paved with gold while they can save up and send money back to their countries of origin.
I think the point Jim is trying to make is that if your going to stay, you have to pay. Framingham rolled out the red carpet but rolled it over its own citizens to accommodate these people. That is not fair. To not connect the dots here is foolish.
Joe Rizoli
J Scott
8:13 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
And if those 1500 children were not in the Framingham Public Schools, do you think there would be no other children in their place? The apartments and neighborhoods would be empty? And those apartment owners and landlords don't pay real estate taxes to the town of Framingham? Such simplistic and flawed thinking.
Mark Cain
6:31 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
EXACTLY! And lets not forget about all these illegal parents working for ca$h and not puting in their share of taxes going into the school system as well. Thanks for posting this great article Mr. Rizoli.
Carrie Miller
8:57 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
So what, we ban children from schools because of their parents' "mistakes"? Then that child gets no education, and a vicious cycle begins.
Jim Sutton
10:04 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
The logic is flawed. The assumptions are incorrect. There are no facts to support a preconceived the conclusions.
There is a claim that of 1,500 children of illegal aliens in the schools; 500 in Woodrow Wilson elementary. Where are these numbers coming from? The schools don't know anyone's immigration status. Wilson has around 550 kids. To say that 500 are the children of illegals is proposterous and intentionally misleading.
"Most of the new children coming into the school system as I look at it, seem to be illegal immigrant children." - Jim Rizoli
This statement makes no sense. If the town has around 20% foreign born residents, how likely is it that over 50% are the children of illegals?
The author assumes that if all the illegals left Framingham that no one would take their place. Huh? All those apartments would sit empty forever and ever? Since there is strong demand for low rent apartments in Metrowest, a more logical assumption would be that the apartments vacated would quickly rented by families of equal economic status. In all likelihood, the number of children in the schools would not change significantly. There would not be 1,500 fewer children. There would not be any $24M savings.
Jim Rizoli has been on a crusade against Brazilian immigrants for years. His organization is listed as a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
It is a shame that the Framingham Patch allows itself to be the pulpit for such an individual.
Leah Graves
11:50 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Agree 100%: "500 in Woodrow Wilson elementary. Where are these numbers coming from? The schools don't know anyone's immigration status. Wilson has around 550 kids. To say that 500 are the children of illegals is proposterous and intentionally misleading."
Joe Rizoli
10:16 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
The Woodrow School figures were mentioned in the Metrowest Daily news, Apparently you don't read the newspapers. As to our facts about the "Brazilian" invasion into Framingham, you can't disprove what we have found. That's what it is. Comments like " it doesn't make sense" are nonsense.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
11:14 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
To all the naysayers....just ask the school dept for the illegal immigrant children count.
They have a good idea. Of course they will say they don't ask questions.
Hmmm Kid doesn't speak English and doesn't speak their native language too well.
I would think that is a true sign of problem.
Now the point if these 1500 kids weren't here.....unless other illegal immigrant children take their place their slots will not be unfilled, Americans aren't the ones having all the kids.
It's 3-1...... three immigrant kids to every American.
The reason it doesn't make sense to you is because you refuse to acknowledge there is even a problem with illegals here in the first place as does ost of the town.
Go to Woodrow Wilson and you'll see what's going on there. You'll be very surprised.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Sutton
12:06 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
There are no figures anywhere saying how many children of illegal alien parents there are in Framingham. You are making up these numbers just like you made up numbers about illegals defaulting on mortgages. You were called out on that, and you couldn't identify even one, but here you go again.
To say that Brazilian immigrants have three times as many children per couple as native born Americans is a wild racist exaggeration, which is fitting for you.
There is no logical reason to believe that the immigrants currently occupying many of the low rent apartments in Framingham have any more children than their native born counterparts in other cities. Your entire argument is baseless.
I have no respect for you. I am done speaking with you.
Jim Rizoli
12:22 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton.....Yup....There are no illegals in the town, and it's costing us nothing. You're right...how stupid of me.
I didn't say Brazilian immigrants have 3x more children....immigrants in general do, so you mis quoted me. It could be the case though.
You talk to any credible real estate person in the town and they will fill you in what's going on with the illegals and the Apt. situation.
You have no resect for me because I won't lie and go along with you fantasay world that there are no illegals here and the cost it has brought on to us.
This town is reaping the worldwind problems by not recognizing a bad situation from the beginning, and nipping it in the bud. You're taxes are the results of my harping on this for the last 8 years.
You don't have to believe anything I say....the facts speak for themselves.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
1:02 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton let your age show your wisdom. Our figures for the Brazilians come from the Newspapers. Obviously you haven't been caught up in the latest facts and you know very little about Framingham. Whole areas of the town have been targeted by Brazilians. The Brookstone Apts on Beaver St, The Leland St Weld St area apartments heavily Brazilian. Arthur St dead end, so many Brazilians they took over the board of directors. Some Americans had their tires slashed with that fiasco. Other apts..Greenview apts, Most of the Apartments on Rt 9.
Second St area apartments.
MANY MANY more I could mention. Even though you have lived a long life you haven't lived it long enough to see the forest because of the trees. Jim R. Called it the elephant in the room. You, like most people in this topic are "Johhny come lately s". You've probably only studied this topic since your last post to PATCH and then that was too much for you. We have been studying this topic since 2003. We stand behind our information. Your town is the way it is because people fell asleep at the wheel here. Organizations like the Metrowest Chamber of Commerce in the early years placated to the Brazilians but found out along the way they were betrayed by the front page criminal investigations, murders and mayhem that came with them. You don't hear too much about praises for that community now. What ever happened to the Sister City Project with Govenador Valadares? The Rizoli's stopped that.
Joe Rizoli
Kim Poness
1:06 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton – I’m going to split this up into a couple of posts, but I wanted to offer some basis for Jim Rizoli’s figures. I pulled together some figures from what I believe are credible sources – usimmigrationsupport.com, which is (as its name implies) an immigrant support and resource website, an article from The Seattle Times, The Orlando Sentinel, the US Government Census website, and the Massachusetts DOE website, and here’s what I found (some figures extrapolated). I’ve included relevant quotes, attached the links, and detailed the math so you can see where I came up with this:
Estimated Population of Illegal Immigrants
As of 2007, FAIR estimates the state’s illegal alien population to be around 250,000 persons, or almost four percent of the state's overall population. The annual fiscal cost to Massachusetts taxpayers for emergency medical care, education and incarceration projected by FAIR is currently $580 million. This figure is estimated to rise to $992 million per year in 2010 and $1.7 billion per year in 2020.
http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/massachusetts.html
Kim Poness
1:06 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Part Two:
Estimated Population of Children of Illegal Immigrants
The study, which analyzed census statistics, found U.S.-born children now account for 73 percent of all children of illegal immigrants. And children of illegal immigrants — including those born overseas — now account for 6.8 percent of elementary- and secondary-school students nationwide and more than one in 10 students in Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada and Texas.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2009054552_illegals15.html
Estimated Population of School-Aged Children
http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_SF1_QTP1&prodType=table
On birth rate of illegal immigrants
A new analysis from the Pew Hispanic Center, a research organization in Washington, D.C., finds that unauthorized immigrants are having babies in the U.S. at a higher rate than the general population
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-08-12/news/os-illegal-immigration-children-20100811_1_illegal-immigrants-immigrant-advocates-center-for-immigration-studies
Kim Poness
1:07 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Conclusion:
Per Student Spending
http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/ppx.aspx
Given the figures found on these websites, here’s how the math plays out:
68,318 total population of Framingham x 4% estimated illegal percentage in Mass = 2,732 illegal immigrants in Framingham
11,732 total population 5-19 in Framigham x 6.8% illegal immigrant children = 797 illegal immigrant children in Framingham Schools
797 illegal immigrant children in schools x $15,6785 per student spending = $12,492,975
Susan Petroni
5:34 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim: I am impressed with your research. It's nice to see real stats to go with statements.
And I agree with your logic, even if all the apartments with "illegal immigrants" were vacated and they returned home -- there is no guarantee that families would move into those apartments, Perhaps we could have an influx of college students, looking to move in or there could be a lot of single, 20-somethings move in, who were working anywhere along Route 9.
It would also be logically to assume, that at least half would be families but no guarantee that the ratio to kids would be equal.
When we purchased our home - the family had two kids. We had none and now have one; and won't be having anymore. So there is one less.
And my neighborhood is actually the opposite of us. Several homes have been bought by young couples or young families after the former residents have passed away or moved away after retirement. So our neighborhood is gaining students to the schools.
Kim Poness
7:40 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Thank you, Susan - I appreciate that!
Kim Poness
8:29 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Sue - I was thinking some more about the home/apartment vacancy situation you described. Interesting - there are five college kids who rent the house behind and to the left of me. Before they moved in, there was a family with three or four children. I bought my house from a family with five children - I had three. My neighbor across the street bought their house from a family with two children, and they have just one. There do seem to be more college kids in my neighborhood, but that's just observation and conjecture; I can't actually back it up with facts. And I'd still like to know where these cheap downtown apartments are - my daughter has been looking for months! But the net is that you're right - there's really no way of knowing for sure who will move into a neighborhood and how they will affect the numbers of children in the schools.
Joe Rizoli
1:19 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton, As to you reference to the SPLC, we are proud to be mentioned on that web site for standing up to that criminal organization along with its sister the ADL. These organizations have proven with their tract records to be suppressors of freedom of speech and HATE groups themselves for Christianity and the Constitution. For you to even quote those groups shows you to be a suppressor of freedom of speech. Go to our web site CCFIILE.com to see what we say about the SPLC and the ADL. Our Latest Cable show for Rizoli TV explains the sins of those despicable groups. When these groups start attacking CHRISTIANS and Christianity then I draw the line. Thank you for helping us expose those groups to defend our FREEDOMS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0tScfmA66c&feature=youtu.be
Joe Rizoli
Kim Poness
1:21 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
PS to Jim Sutton - my posts in no way indicate that I agree with the tone or stance that Messrs. Rizoli have taken. I and my husband were particularly offended by an insulting remark made about me just yesterday. That said, I do believe there is an issue here, but don't believe there should be a singular approach. One of my neighbors, however, an El Salvador native who came here legally over 40 years ago thinks the solution is simple, stating that "illegal is illegal". Just wanted to offer some facts and figures that I found from what I believe to be credible sources.
Jim Sutton
1:45 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
This response is to Mrs Poness.
No one disputes there are illegal immigrants in Framingham. No one disputes that it costs money to educate children. But from a local perspective, we must assume that any dwellings vacated by illegal immigrants would be filled by someone else. The vacany rate of apartments in the region is low. There's no reason to believe the apartments would sit vacant. We can also assume that the new tennants would also have children. They would be in the same economic group as the former tennants, so we can assume they'd have an equal number of children. So whether it's costing us $12M to educate the children of the illegals, or $12M to educate the children of the their replacements, it's still costing us $12M. And either way, whoever owns those apartments is paying the same property tax. Claims that we'd save significant money if we didn't have illegal immigrant in Framingham are false.
Kim Poness
1:56 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton - point made and understood. I do wish I knew where these low-income properties were, and I'm not being sarcastic about that at all. My daughter lives just around the corner from me downtown, and she's paying $900 for a tiny one-bedroom apartment. I'm also not sure that it's fair to assume that any new tenants would be of the same income bracket or have the same number of children. And yes, I understand that landlords would still be paying the same taxes on their properties regardless of who lives there. But in the broader picture, people who are legally allowed to work in the state would be paying income tax on both the state and federal level, something that is not happening right now. That would be a net gain, yes?
Kim Poness
2:03 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim Sutton - I just did some more quick math, and assuming there are 1,935 adult illegal immigrants in Framingham, let's now assume they were instead legally able to work. Let's lowball an hourly wage at $11.00. If you plug that into the tax calculators, that results in a $2.3 million dollar total additional tax contribution to the state, just from Framingham, and an additional $3.7 million increased contribution to the Federal government. I understand that nobody is denying there is a problem, I just find it better to work with actual, verifiable facts and figures when we're having the discussion.
David Nolta
2:31 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim, thanks for doing all that math! Very eye-opening, and provides some balance and some believable figures (for a change!). Some of these recent posts really trouble me again; for example, the usual lumping together and vilifying of all people of Brazilian heritage with illegals (we don't do that with the Irish or the Italians--why is it all right to do that with Brazilians?), the insistence that people with different languages or language skills must be illegal--and this is particularly troubling when the focus is children ("Hmmm Kid doesn't speak English and doesn't speak their native language too well. I would think that is a true sign of problem."). Speaking of children, people who keep insisting on a superficial discourse (you either take everything the Rizolis say at their word, or else you are an illegal supporter, or you deny there are any illegals--why do they keep doing that nasty, divisive thing, offering you a choice between them or an equally outlandish opposite extreme?) are also neglecting another (to use their own tired phrase) "elephant in the room": The Constitution says that if you are born here, you are a legal citizen. If we don't think that's right, it is up to us to follow the correct legislative and judicial processes to change that regulation. But it is not right to just pretend that this isn't the law. In short, whatever language they speak, these children are every bit as American as ANYBODY else. Now, speaking of not speaking English too well...
Jim Sutton
2:35 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
No one knows how many illegals there are, how many work under the table or how much they make. We can make up numbers, but they will just be guesses. It's true that if everyone paid income tax the federal and state government revenues would increase significantly. That would help the local school districts only if the federal and state governments passed those additional revenues along.
Thanks for the conversation Mrs Ponness, but I am done. I find the misinformation being distributed by the Rizolis distasteful.
Kim Poness
2:39 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
@Jim Sutton - I understand completely. Thanks for taking a look at my lengthy extrapolations and simplistic calculations, though!
Kim Poness
2:47 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
@David - thanks for reading through all of that! And very true - children born here are United States citizens. End of story. The Orlando Sentinel article does say "Some are calling for repeal of the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to take away birthright citizenship from those children." I hesitated to copy that just now for two reasons - 1. "Some are calling for . . " who exactly is calling for? I always question statements like that, and 2. "those children" - plain and simply, that just hits me the wrong way. But I still find it interesting to look at some actual numbers rather than just guessing. While mine obviously aren't completely accurate, I think they're at least a reasonable estimate.
Joe Rizoli
1:31 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
You people make it too easy here. How many Brazilian Children are in Woodrow Wilson?
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/education/x901985809/Brazilian-consul-general-praises-Framingham-after-school-program
MOST BRAZILIANS are ILLEGAL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1bRvqrJQrs
Whether all these children at Woodrow Wilson are is up for debate. Obviously a sizable amount of them are US CITIZENS. THEIR PARENTS are probably ILLEGAL. They targeted Framingham and either gave birth to their children here while they themselves have an Illegal Alien status. Then again they shouldn't be using the nationality Brazilian should they? They would be AMERICANS.
Lots of these children came to Framingham as BRAZILIANS, with an ILLEGAL legal status.
Stop making excuses people. Liberalism made a big problem for Framingham.
Your religious institutions be it Catholic, Protestant and Jewish caused hell to break loose in Framingham. At one time another scam, the Brazilians had 50 churches. Another Scam we exposed. Wake up people. It's not us that is looking foolish it's all of you for your ignorance as to what has happened to your town.
Guess what? You're all paying for it through your taxes and upkeep be it bilingual education, police, courts, and everything else....
Joe Rizoli
David Nolta
2:47 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Following one of the links above, it is clear that we should all be grateful to the Jewish Family Service of MetroWest, who have provided resources and set an excellent example by their contribution to the programs at the Woodrow Wilson School!
Jim Rizoli
3:01 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
At the peak times Framingham had around 20,000 to 30,000 illegl aliens here. Our last State Rep Pam Richardson even stated that fact a few years ago. Now it's down to my guess under 5k.
All in all it's costing us a bundle to educate their kids.
So you all can say what you want but look at you tax bills and enjoy.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Kim Poness
3:13 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim - you're getting upset because I posted some best guess figures based on verifiable and unbiased sources? I'm utterly and completely confused . . .
Kim Poness
3:43 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
I'm still confused - I feel like you're arguing with me - you said your estimate was 5,000 based on gut feeling. I extrapolated numbers based on documented figures and came up with 2,700, arguably a lower figure than the actual based on the concentration of illegal immigrants in each area. Am I wrong in saying that I'm getting the feeling that you're arguing with me, despite the fact that I'm actually supporting your point, just supplementing it with verifiable numbers? You've got my head spinning on this one.
Joe Rizoli
3:55 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Some FACTS:
http://www.massachusettsbrazil.com/
<<The Archdiocese of Boston estimated in 1993 that there are about 150,000 Brazilians in the Greater area but Community leaders think that the number would be much higher, more like 250,000 (Michelle Chihara, Boston Pheonix, "The Rio World"). While no definitive numbers exist, some social scientists believe that the Greater Boston area may have the highest concentration of Brazilians outside Brazil (cite). Brazilians, they believe, have been attracted and continue to migrate to this area, in part, due to the already well-established Portuguese speaking communities originating from Cape Verde, the Azores, and Portugal. The largest concentration of Brazilians in the area are located in Somerville, Framingham and Marlboro where they account for 10 to 20 percent of the local population. (Maxine Margolis, Encyclopedia of Migration, 1998: 100)>>
Pam Richardson mentioned up to10,000- 30,000 Brazilians. At its highest I would agree with that figure. Now there are probably 10,000-15,000. Lots of Brazilians have left bringing in a new wave of OTHER nationalities as part of the slave trade to Framingham.
Some of the figures mentioned by our liberal researches are nonsense. Probably something that would be mentioned on the Dish network, if you had Dish Network.
One thing is certain David, the Illegals sure have caused MURDER and MAYHEM in the FRAMEingham, wink wink.....
Joe Rizoli
David Nolta
4:05 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Oh Jim, now you're just flattering me! Seriously, I'm flattered.
Kim Poness
4:05 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Joe - I can't understand why you attack someone who agrees with the basic premise of your argument. Yes, you know you are personally insulting and attacking me by your reference to the dish network - the second time in two days. I'm done with this entire argument - I did nothing - again - to deserve your childish bullying nonsense. Thank G-d I taught my children to behave better than this. I would be embarrassed to the point of moving out of town if my children behaved as you do, but sadly, you won't even be ashamed of yourself. And even more sadly, you couldn't care less that you alienate someone who supports the premise of your argument, and tries to show that with the facts and figures that reasonable and intelligent people ask for. I'm sick to my stomach right now for even trying.
Jim Rizoli
4:08 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim...Good, we agree... took my figures from our past State Rep....so what do you want from me. I figured she was on top of it. The point is there are under 5k could be more not sure now, but there were up to 30k at one time.
Bottom line...this issue has been percolating for a long time and is now costing us plenty.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
4:16 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim....You are too sensitive....my brother likes to kid people what can I say.
Just ignore him.
If I took him as seriously as you we wouldn't be living together...LOL
Jim@ccfiile.com
Kim Poness
4:59 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
We're off topic, but the way I look at it, the minute I'm insensitive to rudeness is the minute I'm that rude, and I don't ever want to be that way. He's not going to change how rude he is, I'm not going to change how sensitive I am. I'll be lambasted for this, I'm sure, but I am a pretty traditional woman, sensitivity and all. I guess it is what it is with him, and it is what it is with me. Perhaps I was born in the wrong time, because I view brashness and rudeness as vulgar. I think one of the problems in the world today is that people have often forgotten how to be kind and civil to each other, even in the face of disagreement. This isn't a case of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em", and it never will be for me. But thanks.
Kim Poness
4:18 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim - what I wanted was to understand why you seemed to be arguing with me when we're in agreement as to the issue. I don't take $12M lightly, and that, I acknowledge is a conservative figure. I simply could not figure out, again, why you seemed to be arguing with me. Just didn't get it at all.
And my last post was not directed at you - it was directed at Joe, who seems to feel the need to constantly insult me. You and he, though twins, are two distinct individuals as far as I can tell. I wasn't brought up here, so I'm not, nor will I ever be, accustomed to that level of rudeness. I did nothing to deserve it.
Joe Rizoli
4:29 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim, who said that quote was just for YOU. It was not. I had that observation for David Nolta also. You don't know how to see humor in your life. You need to laugh at yourself just like I and my brother laugh at the things we do. Just last Sunday I went to the Museum of National history and took a funny picture of two monkeys. I'm going to put my name and Jims name under it. I can laugh at myself. You take things too personal. Did David Nolta get upset at the jab? Come on Kim don't take yourself so seriously. Besides, having a Dish Network Disc as a birds nest or a place for kids to throw snowballs at is just as bad as my Nordic Tract as a clothes hanger.
Joe
Jim Rizoli
4:41 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim....Joe is actually quite funny, but at times he can say rude things.
Look at it this way....now you can say you've been exposed to that level of rudeness.
Believe it or not Joe likes to insult the people he likes.....imagine if he hated you.
Gee....I wonder why he never got married again.....
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
4:44 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Ok that's it, I'm insulted ....I need to go see a psychiatrist for at least two years and take mind altering drugs to feel good about myself now. I might stop watching Doctor Oz and even God forbid... Downton Abbey. I am not going to eat for a year...... I'm not even going to wear red anymore. I'm giving up fried foods even, that's how upset I am...... I am not even post here anymore......NAAAAAAA I'm not that hurt. heheheeheh
Joe
Kim Poness
5:03 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Joe - you're mean. I'm taking my ball and going home. AND I'm telling on you. (and yes, that was humor - juvenile, yes, but humor nonetheless)
Jim Rizoli
6:07 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim...just to let you know I didn't see your math post...so I actually didn't now what you were talking about when you mentioned the 12 million figure. For some reason the post here don't go in order, and it can be missed, but it was good. Even though it's half of what I came up with it's something to work with. I still think there are more children of illegals in the school because of what I've heard at meetings with school officials and putting comments they make together.
I will get to the bottom of it. They know exactly how many are here if we can forge through it all.
The problem is the school dept has a don't ask don't tell policy when kids are admitted into the school system.
Also I think there might be some kids here that live out of town, but attend school here. They should have better ways of dertermining who actually live here.
jim@ccfiile.com
Kim Poness
7:17 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Ahhhhhh . . . okay, now I get the confusion. I think the figures are low too, because they're just extrapolated from the published statewide estimate, and don't take into account the areas of concentrations of illegal immigrants. Clearly, there is a much larger immigrant population in Framingham than in, say, Weston, so the numbers are very conservative. But a $12M conservative number is still unacceptably high.
Susan Petroni
6:16 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Jim - You've been posting for a long time --
but readers can reply to a single poster (and the responses go below that comment) or just post below, so the post don't always go in order.
Joe Rizoli
6:30 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
At town meeting I asked about if there was an fraud in the system with kids being in the school system but NOT living in the town. This is a problem on the border states. People go through the garbage and get peoples names that are on their gas or electric bills. These bills can give legitimacy to illegal aliens who have kids to get into a school system. So I would be concerned about that in Framingham. Are there some kids in the system who really don't live in Framingham but are using others addresses illegally? If I don't find this information I am going to take Kims ball and let the air out of it and stick it on her Dish Antenna . I hear it makes Comcast and RCN come in better. Maybe I'll get a Dish, my Cable is running slow..... I'll hook it up to my Nordictract....hehehe
Joe
Jim Rizoli
6:43 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Sue..Good to know.
I usually reply below, so it kinda faked me out for a sec.
jim@ccfiiile.com
Jim Rizoli
8:45 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Kim....You did a great job with your investigation....but Framingham is a unique case that has to me reconed with differently than other towns. We are spending 10 mil, 12 mil, 20, mil whatever....I think we should hit the Feds for a bailout.
I can deal with illegals but I'm not happy paying for the cost, and no Framingham resident should be either. Like I said before before we can do anything we have to admit there is a problem with out of sight costs paying for the children of illegals..
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
10:18 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Sue thanks for taking a lot of my post down. I had references backing up what I was saying. ALL my post are taken down except one post. I put up the first post...GONE. That post explained a lot having to do with Jim's article, Incredible. Love to know the reason.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
10:34 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Sue...I'm curious why you took down my link to the Pam Richardson video?
That was a critical point to prove how many illegals lived in Framingham by someone other than us, especially a former State Rep.
It was nice that you allowed me to write the article but somewhat dishonest to not give me or Joe a chance to reply with our links and facts.
It takes a lot of time to post things here and pretty discouraging when you delete important links to back us up I'm a little taken back by what you did.
Now I see straight out how the media controls debate on certain subjects right in my own town.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
10:45 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
This post here ask about the Fraud that could be going on in Framingham:
Now, if the following San Diego story doesn't scare you, you can't be scared:
“I was called by a school in SE San Diego, down near the border, to advise me that my 'grandchild' had not been picked up from school and that I needed to come and get him.
“I live in N.W. San Diego, far from the border, and have no grandchildren.
“The Border Patrol referred me to an ICE supervisor, who explained what the problem was: to register their kid(s) in school, a person needs to provide a proof of residency, and the schools accept an addressed document like a phone bill or water bill belonging to me. He suggested that an [illegal alien] had lifted it from the trash, or pilfered our mail, and handed it around to some illegal parent who wanted to put their kids in US schools.
“They then were able to enroll their kid in school, using me as the contact. This might have been going on for years, before the day came when someone missed pick-up of the kid at school. The ICE supervisor said they would swing by the school on Monday, but that the kid would be long gone, off for another school, since the teachers would tip the family off - all the teaching staff know what is going on, they are aiding and abetting, since fewer pupils means fewer teachers.
“This is taxpayer fraud, fraud upon me, and fraudulent use of our school's very limited resources"
Could it be happening here?
Joe
David Nolta
10:57 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Anything could happen here. But just because something happened somewhere doesn't mean that it always happens everywhere. Crime happens, though criminal behavior is no more tied to race than it is to eye color or hair color. It is my personal opinion, however, that a great deal of crime is motivated by poverty.
Susan Petroni
10:47 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
I have not deleted or taken down any posts since last week when I removed one by Phil and one by your brother. on another article.
Susan Petroni
11:13 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
There are so many comments here by the same people ... it's hard for me to tell which ones may be gone ... but I would suggest opening and closing your browser and clearing out your cookies on your computer ... that usually cleans up server issues when not everything loads.
Jim Rizoli
12:40 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
David.....You said that most crime is created by poverty.....I feel that crime incidents might be....but loss of revenue crime ripoffs etc....are done by wealthy people.
When you look at all the bank fraud, Wall St fraud etc etc....these are very rich people committing (white) collar crimes.
I would bet all the crime committed by poor people doesn't even come close to all the money lost by crime committed by rich people. A trillion dollars is a lot of poor people crimes.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
12:55 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Good heavens! I never said poor people commit more crimes than rich people! And since you have flattered me by looking into my past, you should know me better than that. I said that I believe a great deal of crime is caused by poverty. And poverty is rarely the fault of those who suffer from it: the poor. In fact, the rich, who often, through greed, create or exacerbate poverty, can be guilty of that crime as well as the others. Though we can't forget that poor and rich are relative terms, nevertheless, I believe that poverty is often a cause of crime.
Jim Rizoli
10:40 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
David....Not to be picky here....but poverty=poor, right?
So wouldn't it be right to say these poverished/poor people are the one commiting the crimes?
Your point about the rich creating the situation for the poor by making the bed they sleep in, my thought on it anyway, is right on.
I've said this before.....if the time ever came....I'd rather be in a foxhole with a poor person then in one with a Wall Street-er or Banker.
By the way the comments that vanished seem to be back.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
3:37 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Well not to be even pickier, but I never used a comparative term. I said I believe that a great deal of crime is caused by poverty--not that more crime is caused by poverty than, for example, greed. Furthermore, poverty does not "equal" poor. Poverty is the CONDITION in which poor people live, and to my mind IT is the cause (rather than the poor people) of a lot of what we call crime. Poverty is like greed in that it leads to crime, but poverty is usually an unwanted affliction, whereas greed is, from any civilized perspective, subject to personal control, a dangerous and immoral thing to indulge. No foxholes for me!
Jim Rizoli
10:50 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
@Kim..."there's really no way of knowing for sure who will move into a neighborhood and how they will affect the numbers of children in the schools."
My take on it is this, if all the illegals left with their kids we would have 1000-1500? or so less kids in the schools.
Americans wouldn't be replacing them, because like I said they aren't as we speak in the numbers the illegals do.
So I would think a few schools would actually have to be closed. God forbid that for the teachers and the unions!
So the tax savings coming from that would be substantial.
For people to think that we're dealing with a glass of water being empty and it just fills up quickly is nonsense.
American Citizens are not moving into Framingham the illegals are.
If anything people are leaving Framingham, faster than they are coming in, and they are replaced by people that are actually costing us more money.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
3:24 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Leave the teachers and the unions alone, Jim. Just because you didn't listen to your teachers does not make it fair for you to constantly bash this sector of the working world.
Kim Poness
11:38 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
That's odd, because you previously implied (Pam Richardson video vs. the 5,000 estimate) that the illegal immigrant population is dwindling, yet the data shows that the population in Framingham is growing. Interesting contradiction.
Jim Rizoli
12:01 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Kim.....The illegal immigration population is increasing compared to the American Citizen population.
So it does sound contradictory......So to summarize.....The Illegals as a whole have dropped down, compred to 30k, to now round 5k, but still ahead of the American Citizens moving into the area.
I might also add the really young children of illegals have inreased by quite a bit.
Something fishy going on with that one. I think some of the kids are grouping together into one family. They are using residences that they don't live in.
The school should do more investigation into it. It's very easy to claim you live in Framingham when you really don't. They only need a utilty bill etc, do you know how easy it is to fake one of those. So the school Dept should send people out to the addresses, not just accept what they are being told.
Some illegals move back to Brazil, and leave their kids here and then bring them home on summer vacations. Nice!
No one is checking them out.
jim@ccfiile.com
Derek from Framingham
3:22 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Jim and Joe - it amazing you don't see a good thing when it happens your way.
Kim has done some research, come up with some valid statistical data (erroring on the low side for good measure) which is very difficult for the naysayers to dispute.
Many of us wish you would just take a page out of her playbook - her way is the way to win the argument! The problem is you don't let go - if someone doesn't agree with every little word you sputter (regardless of whether you have the data to back it up) - you continually harp on them.
Your major issue is that you will not change your playbook - maybe its some type of martyr complex...
You complain that no one wants to hear the truth - I'm afraid the same can be said of you two. Your fight actually has a lot of support privately with many in town - the problem is you continue to poison the well. By taking the approach you take - you easily open the door for the 'bigot' argument which scares many into the shadows.
Again, what Kim did in a day in terms of credibility to winning an argument is more than what your approach has been to accomplish in years.
You will undoubtably go on the offensive against me now for telling you the truth - but please consider Kim's approach to fighting the issue...
Kim Poness
7:48 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
@ Derek - thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy links / quotes / calculations. I honestly believe this is a conversation worth having, and I do hope more people like yourself will feel compelled to join in. This is such a complex and emotional topic with little room for conjecture or generalizations, but living where I do, it's an issue I'm more than just peripherally interested in. Thanks, Derek, for your encouraging post!
David Nolta
3:33 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Children born here are LEGAL citizens. I know how you hate to confront that fact. But children born here are as legal as you, Jim Rizoli. And that sounds really smart, from an economic point of view: don't pay the teachers to teach, but pay to "send people out to the addresses" of these children. You aren't being practical, your figures are still pretty loose, and may I say again that you would be wiser to lay off the kids altogether? It's a bit weird, your telling people, for example, to "Go to Woodrow Wilson and you'll see what's going on there." That's just wrong, Jim.
Jim Rizoli
3:44 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Yes the well is poisoned but I'm not going to drink from it.
IF the illegals weren't here we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Kim's low figure is still much too high and a reason to worry, even she knows that.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
3:54 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
David.....I did very well in school,thank you.
Seems like an insult from someone who has no idea about my past.
Talking about generalization about people.
In regards to teachers unions, they are notas noble as you make them out to be.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
5:32 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Jim, I didn't mean to insult you--I only know about your past what you have spoken of here. You have, on the other hand, spoken about things in my past, though I have never spoken of them here--in other words, you have "looked me up". And was I insulted? No, I was, as I said, flattered.
Now as far as the "school" comment--as I said, I didn't mean to be harsh. I meant only to comment once again on your utter disregard for spelling and grammar--and that cannot surprise you, and I have even tried to help you out there, sincerely! As far as teachers, they are just one more group that you like to target wholesale. And that is the problem you and I will probably always have--you can think only in terms of stereotypes, and you tar whole masses of people with whatever brush strikes your fancy: immigrants, unions, teachers, scholars, Brazilians, people with (unused?) television receivers, etc., etc., etc.
Joe Rizoli
4:06 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Derek without a last name, Why don't YOU do what Kim is doing? You won't because fist of all you post without your last name. Not going anywhere with that tone are we?
If you don't like our methods then do something Derek. We are, whether you like us or not. If it wasn't for us in town you would have NEVER known about the illegal problem. You would have had flag day parades with the Brazilian flag displayed over the American flag. You would have had Girls in g-strings on floats showing as much skin as a nude in a nudest camp.But for God's great graces we stopped that. Like I said if you don't like the way we do it, then YOU and Kim do something. You're all a lot of talk. Go to the Selectmen's meetings. Write to the newspapers. COMPLAIN. YOU WON'T because you can't even give us your last name, how are you going to go to a Selectmen's meeting and say who you are. All talk Derek. Get off your you know what and do something. You don't need the Rizoli's permission.
Joe Rizoli
Joe Rizoli
4:37 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
David, it is great that Brazilian children born here are American Citizens. My only problem with that are they AMERICANS or hyphenated Americans?. The downfall of America will be people who are not committed to being AMERICANS without the Italian, Japanese, and without the Brazilian first name. Thus African American, Brazilian American, etc..They all want to still be the other nationality. Obviously CITIZENSHIP to you is breathing the air in America. It is not. It encompasses the whole gamut of our Laws, our Constitution our way of life. The silly 14 Amendment that gives citizenship to people born here is an insult.
Lastly David, it would be nice to really be provided with information on HOW many children in Woodrow School of Brazilian parents are Citizens. It may not be that many David. What would you say to Muslims having children in the United States taken over a school being 80% of the population of that school. What would your opinion be then? My concern is that Even if these "Brazilian" children are American Citizens they will still do the bad habits of their adopted countries and be just like their parents. They will have no conscience aiding and abetting their parents friends nationality, thus helping those breaking the law. Rule of law will be a laugh. Of course David that probably is the way you want it. I's obvious.
You want to save everybody. You'd have no problem over crowding a life raft, thus causing all to drown. You have no common sense.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
8:23 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Derek....As you can see Kim is the only one that I've seen that has had the courage to talk about this issue. You are too, but you still haven't thrown yourself into the ring because you wan to remain anonymous. You really can't be of any help if you work behind the scenes complaining.. Kim is catching on to how severe this problem is.
Now in regards to the Rizoli's and the fact that people don't want to get behind us because of our "tone", well my friend, that is their loss. If they don't like our "tone" them they should be singing their own, and the fact they are not is causing them to reap some dire results.
There are a lot of people I might particularly not care for but I don't hold back from supporting them because I don't personally care for them.
None of you even agreed with us about the 10-30,000 illegals here until you saw Pam Richardson make a comment about it. If the Rizoli's say it don't bother but if someone else says something it's OK.
You insulted us, ridiculed us, etc etc...but bottom line what we were saying all the time was right on. We know what has been going on in this town better than anyone it's a dam shame people didn't get on board 8 years ago.
Lets take out the personality bashing and deal with the facts.
Hopefully Kim can have better luck with you, and we welcome her input.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
8:28 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
@David...."and that is the problem you and I will probably always have--you can think only in terms of stereotypes, and you tar whole masses of people with whatever brush strikes your fancy: immigrants, unions, teachers, scholars, Brazilians, people with (unused?) television receivers, etc., etc., etc.
David, ........I call it like it is....I won't water it down, or try to please the PC crowd.
In regards to my spelling....Sometimes I post using my 7 inch ipad on the road, so typing on it isn't the best. I haven't figured out how to correct the mistakes. It's hard enough to type on it.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
8:40 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
"Calling it like it is" and "not watering it down" are silly cliches, and more often than not they are employed to cover unsupported ideologies and personal delusions of superiority. I'm not saying that is necessarily true in your case, Jim--is it? And as far as "not being PC"-- that's another one of those cliched positions, challenging the "PC" specter, which challenge is meant to display the brash dismissal of and indifference to sensitivity that we're all supposed to secretly harbor. But I don't harbor it. A little PC can be a good thing. Fewer people get hurt.
David Nolta
8:41 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
AND I hope you're pulling over...
David Nolta
8:30 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Something I've been meaning to ask for a long time: what's wrong with having a "sister city" in another country? I think that's a good idea, and promotes global awareness and a less narrow or nationalistic mentality. In any case, I don't think it's something people should be proud of blocking.
Derek from Framingham
9:42 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Congratulations Joe I figured it would be an hour before you went on the attack and yet you did it in about 45 minutes - I'll say this for you guys - you are predictable.
But maybe I will take another shot at reasoning with you. Yes Jim and Joe you were RIGHT all those years ago that illegal immigration has brought some brought some problems to Framingham - you were the canaries in the mineshaft. Thank you - thank you - thank you. Now that someone has thanked you are you happy now?
Now lets move on. What do we do about it? You ask why am I not doing my own thing. Well at the moment you at least have a couple people on the Patch agreeing with your general issue (maybe not all the specifics - but at least the general issue) - more than I can say you got from the MWDN or Frambors.
But instead of looking at this as a positive you just go into the usual spin about 'how we told you people years to wake up and smell the coffee'. Again Jim and Joe thank you thank thank you - you saw it before many of us - yes YOU WERE RIGHT IN GENERAL! Jim and Joe - someone else is AGREEING with you in principal! (But of course you will go on the attack anyways - maybe it truly is a martyr complex you guys have.)
Derek from Framingham
9:42 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
You ask for help, but when people give you constructive criticism which might help enlist others to the cause - you toss it aside because its not your way. Well guys your way is not working - but I think Kim's way has merit. Again kudos to Kim for showing the courage to put herself out there. So take this as a plea guys - for someone who would like to get people out of the shadows - tone down the rhetoric and push with the facts as best you can. Your argument about the mortgages issue probably has some merit as well but some guy trips you guys up by just asking for one example and you couldn't give it to him. You don't look credible.
OK boys - time to be predictable again - lets' see if you can beat the 45 minute mark this time.
Jim Rizoli
10:21 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Derek....Just finished watching my weekly show # 130...Sat 9pm...See if you can catch it it's Tues, Thurs 11 pm. Our Rizoli TV show is on Sunday night 11pm.
Those shows have some interesting info on the slave trade and what they are not telling you.
Well anyway...thanks for the input.....Yes, Kim is a great asset hopefully she will stick with it. In regards to the mortgages and the fact that many were held by illegals, we have a person working it and has the info. I will not publish their names here but might send you to where you can find the addresses.
I'm not to concerned with what others think about it because I know what's going on, and the damage can be seen by the foreclosures themselves.
You can do your own research if your interested.
We went out taking pictures today of all the places where the foreclosures were the worst.
We do we know we might be ruff around the edges but we're right on with the facts.
Again...... if people don't like the way we're doing it let them do it their way.
The problem is, good people are doing nothing.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
10:55 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Darn, I didn't beat the 45 minute mark.....
Derek no last name. I think Kim and you, providing you do have a last name, should take the bull by the horns here. Do SOMETHING besides hand slapping and yapping Kudos. DO something. Kim is very knowledgeable and sincere. DO SOMETHING.
We will continue to do it our way whether you agree with us or not. We will try to do something at town meeting about the Illegals in the town but we are only a few among many who for some reason love having illegal aliens in the town.
We want to expose the corrupt ESL program. We need others to get on that besides us. Stop yapping and get into specifics about what you want to do. Now let's get down to work here.
Joe Rizoli
Joe Rizoli
11:08 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
David, the Sister City project was a SCAM. It is supposed to be an EXCHANGE of cultures. It was NOT. It was a one way street for the BRAZILIANS. Guess what, the Rizolis STOPPED it. It was a scam from start to finish. We exposed it, the people behind it went back to their homes embarrassed about what happened. NOBODY has said anything about it since. We already have a Sister City plan with another country. We don't need another Sister City. I am proud that we killed the Brazilian Shyster City plan. You ALL should be grateful for what we did.
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x136120168
http://util.wickedlocal.com/multimedia/metrowestdailynews/brazil/gallery.html
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
11:49 am on Sunday, February 26, 2012
@Derek..."You complain that no one wants to hear the truth - I'm afraid the same can be said of you two. Your fight actually has a lot of support privately with many in town - the problem is you continue to poison the well. By taking the approach you take - you easily open the door for the 'bigot' argument which scares many into the shadows"
If we poisoned the "well" than I would think it's time to build another well.
Anyone out there with a shovel? Or would you rather to drink the "poisoned" water. Who suffers in the end?
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
12:06 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
It's a little early to be drinking.
Joe Rizoli
12:39 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
So to the Save the Illegal immigrant people, what's your plan?
David Nolta wants the Illegals to live with him, he wants to pay their taxes, help them by setting up a checking account to help them send money back to their countries of origin, so that concern is covered. We can't refer to these people as "these" people anymore so I say let's call them "the Saintly's". Halos would be nice too.over them when we show pictures of them after "The Saintly's" cause murder and mayhem, using hammers on heads of wives and children. Or use automobiles as weapons of mass destruction, of course NOT according to manufactures instructions, just like the hammers. Open up your pocketbooks and wallets people, "The Saintly's" rule. Protected by "The Savers", David Nolta, President and treasurer. David give your email so people can donate to your cause.
Lastly, David Nolta and company are allowing him to open up his house to provide a few more bedrooms to those "Saintlys" who come over to America 8 months pregnant so their little "Saintlys" can become US Citizens. These now "CitizenSaintlys" never really assimilate and are walking Anti-American cells waiting to betray our country at the drop of a hat. When that happens, you know who to thank, it won't be be. These "CitizenSaintlys" when asked about George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson, Our Founders or the Constitution, will reply, probably in their language of origin.....WHAT? Who are those people and what is this Constitution?
Joe
Jim Rizoli
1:02 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
To all those out there that are behind illegal immigration, I say they open their house up to them, house, feed, and take care of their medical bills.
I would think after a month or so you life views of the subject matter will change.
jim@ccfiile.com
Derek from Framingham
3:30 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
OK, Jim and Joe here's an idea. Maybe its been tried before since you have been around the block all these years - so tell me if you know if its possible. Again, look at the side effects of what I am proposing. I for one am tired of driving on the road with people who have no insurance on their cars or don't have a valid license to operate the vehicle. This spans all people - illegal and legal. If I have to pay insurance to drive my car then everybody has to as well. That's fair right and non-discriminatory.
So here's what I propose - can Framingham create an ordinance/law in which if you are driving a car without insurance the Town an immediately impound and sell the vehicle? For those that give their insured vehicle to an unlicensed driver they can agree to have the car taken since they have aided the breaking of the law or they can keep the car but have to file theft charges against the driver (this avoids the old - they took it without my permission).
Think about the repercussions such a law could have...
Joe Rizoli
4:30 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Derek excellent Idea. We have talked about this before because we feel that it would also get some tax revenue for the town. We will try to push this again or get a Citizens petition up maybe we could get this passed.
>>Think about the repercussions such a law could have...>>
David Nolta should be on this like a bear to honey...to OPPOSE it, right David.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
4:31 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Derek....Good thinking Derek.....But, I've already tried to do that. I asked the police point blank about doing it and they had their excuses for NOT doing it.
Excuses were..."where are you going to put the cars, liability of the town etc etc...".
They always have the excuses.
I get a little tired dealing with the people who could care less.
That definitely would stop the problem in my way of thinking.
Maybe you will have better luck.
Jim@ccfille.com
Derek from Framingham
10:38 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Alright maybe we take it down a notch - but basically accomplish the same thing. How about let's just boot the cars and have an extremely high penalty cost for removing the boot? After so much time we might need to find a way to auction them off - but this removes the issue of where to store them and should reduce the liability.
Jim Rizoli
11:34 pm on Sunday, February 26, 2012
Derek....that would do it....go tell Chief Carl that's what you want to do.
Jim@ccfiile.com
First-Post Last-Post
9:12 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
First and last comment from me.
So far as I can tell Jim Rizoli routinely exaggerates to make his points. He has no credibility. And it's annoying.
A little while back they said "most" (which means over 50%) of the foreclures in Framingham were due to illegal aliens. When called out, he couldn't name even one. If he can't identify even one, what's the likelihood that the over 50% claim is true?
Now he's claiming that the Framingham schools would save $24M if we didn't have illegals in town. This claim was also found to be unfounded.
If you read up on him you'll find that he has a long history of racism and anti-semitism. He's on record as saying that he believes the holocaust wasn't nearly as bad as we've been led to believe. And I now I'm guessing he's uncovered information that the slaves came over voluntarily.
Why does Framingham Patch publish anything he posts? The role of any news source is to provide news. Jim Rizoli is spreading misinformation.
Susan Petroni
10:00 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
@First-Post Last-Post -- this was a letter to the editor, an opinion piece.
We are a community news site - in which we allow the community to interact with each other, like they were having conversation on the soccer field, a bus stop or Town Meeting; thus why we ask posters to follow Patch policy and to use their first and last name and not a pseudo name when commenting on the site...
http://framingham.patch.com/terms
*** Everyone has the right when they see the name of someone they don't agree with to skip over the post. Just like someone who doesn't like sports, may skip over that section in a newspaper.
Jim as an elected Town Meeting member has the right to comment on articles and to submit the occasional letter to the editor. It's your choice if you agree with him or not. As you can see from the comments above, some agree and some don't.
First-Post Last-Post
10:23 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
That sounds good. Except that 75% of the comments are from Jim Rizoli. Like it or not, your community news site has turned into Jim Rizoli's hate blog. You can have your rules. You can allow Jim Rizoli to continue to misinform readers. That's your call. I'm just letting you know that it hurts your site, which otherwise is a nice community exchange. Imagine if there were a raving lunatic ranting and raving at the bus stop every day. How long would it take you to find another bus stop?
Jim Rizoli
10:29 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
First post with no name.....Don't worry about my credibility, you don't even have the guts to post your name. Where is your credibility.
When you get with the program here and use your name maybe we will have more respect for you.
Don't like what I have to say skip over it, and definitely don't comment on it.
The Rizoli''s have a perfect right to comment here as long as we play by the rules....unlike you who want to break them by not using your name.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
11:24 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
Seeing the way you treat people who use their real names--in short, badly, and at times creepily (do you look people up online, Jim, and then insert silly little clues as to what you've "found" in your posts? do you harangue and lie about people who don't agree with you? the proof is in the posts) might discourage some potential participants from joining the conversation. I think there is some interest, and truth, in First-Post Last-Post's bus stop analogy.
For myself, the Milford and Framingham Patches are in part interesting because of the Rizolis indefatigable, often outrageous, usually hateful but just as usually (to judge from the replies) unsuccessful attempts to influence people and to further their odd and offensive political schemes. But once in a while the whole show strikes me as just that--a show, like a daytime talk- or court-show. You'll be watching, and then suddenly you'll think, "Wait, they're just letting these two characters go on and on in order to make fun of them." That's when the moral dilemma arises.
I am against censorship for anything but outright and deliberate libel or obvious hate crimes (the Rizolis tread what I think is a fine line here--and no doubt deliberately). But sometimes, for their own sakes, you wish that you could help, or at least hide, them.
Derek from Framingham
10:35 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
Jim - please explain why do I need to talk to Chief Carl. We're talking about a local law/ordinance. Would not the BOS/Town Meeting/voters be the one who make it happen?
And Jim and Joe not to beat a dead horse - but just hoping that it will sink in what everybody else sees but what you fail or do not wish to see. Mr. or Ms. First-Post Last-Post is just another prime example of why you should consider changing the way you are attacking the problem. Credibility is the issue. You need to regain it if you want people to help.
Have you noticed not even one poster has taken a shot at Kim's comments (or mine for that matter)?
Jim Rizoli
11:13 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
Derek....Why would First poster attack you? You haven't said anything to upset him/her.
Start criticizing the way he/she does things and see how it goes.
We tell it like it is..... if you people can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen.
I'm not looking for converts...just letting people know what's happening.
It affects them more than me.
In regards to credibility....everything we predicted has come true in Framingham
I would look at that at the credibility of the people in the town for not being vigilant to listen to us as something to worry about.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
11:50 am on Monday, February 27, 2012
David.....We Rizoli's have not harassed anyone here...if anything we've been the ones viciously attacked by guys like you who make it look like we have.
Please show me where we have done what you say....As I've said before we play by the rules....Sue is pretty strict on what goes on here. You just so happen want to rules to be changed only for the Rizoli's, and the curtailing of their free speech.
You seem like the only one hanging on to our every word.....I would say to you get a life free from the Rizoli's as it seems we're not to compatible with your lifestyle and liberal of the wall viewpoints.
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
12:00 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
I've told you before, Jim, there are no guys like me! When I reprint your dishonest quotes, you get mad. Just go back over the posts, and read your attacks on people. You have no idea what I want--so stop repeating that false and presumptuous claim. I love free speech, and have never asked anybody to change the rules. But I see, you're off on another lying spree. Come down to earth, Jim, and try to be a happier and more honest person. You may not believe it, but I'm still rooting for you.
As for hanging on your every word--I explained above your role in my participation on the Patch. Now explain again about how you look people up online and then plant silly and transparent clues as to their personal and professional activities in your posts? Like it or not, a lot of people would find that a little creepy. And unwise.
First-Post Last-Post
12:18 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Rizoli has no credibility. He makes stuff up on the spot to support his point, he repeats it a bunch of times, and pretends that it's all real.
Here's one. Rizoli made the claim that 'most foreclosures in Framingham were by illegals'. When asked, he couldn't name even one. Pitiful.
Here's another. Rizoli says 'the schools would save $24,000,000 if we didn't have to eduate illegal kids'. Then his logic was shown to be flawed. Ridiculous.
Here's a third. Rizoli claims illegals have three times as many kids as Americans in the same economic class. Just made it up out of thin air. Foolish.
We all know Framingham is paying the price for having lots of illegals in town. It's nowhere near the price Rizoli claims, but there is a price. It's a shame, but every time he exaggerates, makes stuff up and lies, he defeats his own arguments and sets his own cause back.
Susan Petroni
12:20 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Derek & David - I agree with you.
How you deliver your message is just as important as what your message is.
Best analogy, is that you can have a PhD and won numerous science awards, but if you go to a lab dressed in your pjs you're unlikely to get the job.
And "First-Post Last-Post" I agree you wouldn't wish to come to bus stop anymore, but if you have to go because that is where your child is picked up and dropped off from school, you learn quickly to ignore that parent ...
And I agree with you that Jim & Joe comment often and sometimes on the same issue over and over and try to post about"Immigration" on every article. I have put a halt to that several times; but as I have written numerous times I can not monitor comments 365 days a year, 24 hours a day or I wouldn't be able to cover events and write articles.
It is another reason why this letter is good, because now I expect illegal immigration and school comments only to be posted here.
David Nolta
1:02 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Susan, I admire and thank you for your ingenuity.
Derek from Framingham
1:58 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
OK Jim and Joe even though you have first/last guy blowing holes in your arguments look where he is in the end - he still is AGREEING there is a problem (although he claims its nowhere near your numbers - truthfully I'd like him to back up that statement just as much as he is asking you to back up yours.).
But let me toss on quick item I found regarding the 3 times as many kids. Its a couple of years old but at least it is a piece of data.
A 2009 study released by the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization, stated "About 47% of illegal immigrant households have children, compared with 21% for U.S.-born residents and 35% for legal immigrants." So for arguments sake if we use the high and lows. There is a 1 in 5 chance that a US person moving into town has kids, but a 1 in 2 chance of an illegal having them. Its not exactly your 3 to 1 numbers but it is not a trivial number as others may be claiming.
Jim Rizoli
2:11 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Derek....as you stated with your research....we have a big issue here that no one is talking about except us.
Lets say on the low side there are 1000 children of illegal aliens here that is still a huge cost to the town.
In regards to having a place to post about illegal immigration issues that's fine with me.
But if there is an article that comes up elsewhere....then wouldn't it be logical that we can follow that thread also.
We just follow where the info is and don't control the flow of thought here.
Sue....Hard to believe you're still allowing this joker to post here without using his name.
I honestly feel it's Phil Vinal ...same arguments different name.
Do you think we don't notice those things.LOL
Jim@ccfiile.com
Kim Poness
2:50 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
You're not the only ones talking about it.
Derek from Framingham
2:51 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Jim - people are talking about it - just not in the manner you would like or perhaps want. And for Mr. First/Last - does it really matter if he gave his name or not? He's asked you to back up your claims - what difference does it make if you know his name - would that change the answers?
I think your foreclosure statements have a possibility of truth but without any data or examples I can't prove you right or wrong. Mr. First/Last could claim there were none. I couldn't prove him right or wrong either. But YOU are putting the statement out there so to be taken credibly you need to provide some type of evidence.
Guys stop worrying about who is who and whoever Phil Vinal is or isn't (is he even someone important?). It doesn't matter - stop taking your eye off of the ball. You are getting the chance to bring your case into a public forum - now prove you case with facts or if estimating - state that you are doing that.
Susan Petroni
3:05 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
This from the Boston Globe shows that illegal immigrants can have a mortgage: "Although they lack legal residency, the immigrants find ways to build credit and buy homes: They take jobs, pay bills, open bank accounts, and sign up for credit cards. Many even file tax returns each year using their real names, addresses, and identification numbers issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS generally does not share the information with federal immigration agents. Nothing in federal law prohibits illegal immigrants from owning homes. And banks can legally accept passports, tax identification numbers, and consular cards from people who want to open bank accounts or get home loans, according to the Comptroller of the Currency, a bureau of the U.S. Treasury that regulates national banks."
But I have seen nothing that moves they are foreclosing at a higher rate than other mortgage holders.
David Nolta
4:18 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Many Americans own homes abroad, and have bank accounts in other countries. In fact, isn't that a traditional outlet for wealth?
Jim Rizoli
3:15 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Derek....The foreclosure situation speaks for itself.
Do I have to prove it?? The paper states who has them, put it all together.
I say to the naysayers.....get me the list and we go through them together.
I could have hundreds to show the naysayers but they still wouldn't believe me...
I look at it this way....the proof is in the pudding (your taxes) pay them and weep!
Ten years ago we didn't have a foreclosure problem now we do.....why?
Something radically had to change to cause this. I say millions of illegals were given mortgages that they shouldn't of been given....the facts show that.
Now the illegals are cashing in by going into foreclosure.
It is what it is.....just look at your taxes and put all the events happening in the town for the last ten years together.
It's not to difficult to figure....Problem is..... if you show there is a problem then that means someone was caught sleeping on the job, and people don't want to be the one caught. There are a lot sleeping on the job...and sleeping in the same bed!
Jim@ccfiile.com
First-Post Last-Post
4:02 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
In other words you still can't identify even one illegal who was foreclosed on in Framingham or holds a mortgage today.
Derek from Framingham
3:32 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
No Jim the foreclosure situation does not speak for itself. There were a ton of people who went on that ride either stupidly or for cheating the system. I personally know of many US citizens who went on that ride.
Are you basing it on the last name name who owns the property? If so, sorry Jim - not good enough - Judge Judy would throw out that type of 'evidence' in a second. You say get me the list - I say don't you already have it? Isn't this what you are basing your claims on? I could just as easily say we have a foreclosure problem because there were too many stupid and greedy people (legal and illegal) who bought property they could not afford. You might be completely right - but from these seats its still conjecture.
Jim Rizoli
3:35 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Sue.....they are using false ID's to get them....Do you think that is right?
They use false SS numbers etc.....
You can't use false information on bank forms etc.....so I think there is a problem there...right?
Jim@ccfiile.com
Consider this......
http://www.cis.org/IdentityTheft
Jim Rizoli
4:08 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
First Post....Here is my phone #, call me and I will fill you in...I won't post anyone's name here as you can see the legal ramifications of that.
I hope that will be acceptable to you...if not than I did the best I could with you.
Jim@ccfiile.com
508-875-0835
Jim Rizoli
4:42 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
@ David....."Many Americans own homes abroad, and have bank accounts in other countries. In fact, isn't that a traditional outlet for wealth?"
David........ I'm little surprised that an intelligent guy like you would say this...I guess you don't get the fact that Americans usually don't use fake SS numbers, or fake anything especially when they are dealing with their money and property out of the country. It's a FELONY to use any kind of fake ID....
The illegals on the other hand survive by doing this. Please read this article ...
You too Sue......
http://www.cis.org/IdentityTheft
Jim@ccfiile.com
David Nolta
5:34 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Jim, as you will be delighted to hear, this will be the last time I address you. My comment, which is patently true and easily proved, that "Many Americans own homes abroad, and have bank accounts in other countries" was made neither to support nor encourage illegal immigration. I have no idea as to the motivations of Americans buying homes outside of the country, how they do it, whether or not any of them do it counter to foreign or native laws. My point is simply that home-ownership by a foreign person is not an identifier of illegality, any more than physical size, skin color, surname, language or language skills, open screen doors, or (and you knew this was coming!) a television dish. Goodbye, Jim! Free at last.
Jim Rizoli
5:22 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
When confonted with "TRUTH" people that have no clue usually run....
My comment had to do with illegals and false ID's it had nothing to do with Amercans. I can't for the life of me figure out why you posted what you did...it makes no sense.
Sorry to see you go but when taken to task people will back down, of course they blame us....but in reality our common sense dealing with the issue usually wins out in the end, and illegal immigration is a known bad thing for the country and more so for our towns. I mean really now, that is just common sense.
Make sure you read the Cis.org article as it might be a protection for you in the future.
Your friend on patch....
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
9:54 pm on Monday, February 27, 2012
Susan, Illegal Immigrants have FALSE DOCUMENTS. That's why the word ILLEGAL is before the word 'Immigrants". If they buy a house they are committing FRAUD. If they apply for credit cards they are committing FRAUD. If they apply for a license with FALSE DOCUMENTS they are committing FRAUD. These are ALL mentioned in the VOLUMES of LAWS dealing with the Federal Immigration Laws. Why is it the Illegals are getting away with this when Americans would be thrown in jail or loose their job in seconds if they did this. If the "Immigrants" are ILLEGAL they are using FRAUD.
http://tinyurl.com/y9czdfc
The Mortgage companies who have played the game with these Illegals should be thrown in jail with them.
Joe Rizoli
David Nolta
6:54 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Marky Cain, YOU sir, are the liar. And I demand satisfaction. Read a book. Pat a dog. Do something nice for yourself and the world. For a change.
Obama 2012!!!
Linda Dunbrack
7:19 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
@ Susan Isn't there a rule about using your real name? I don't typically agree with Jim, but at least he signs his name to his posts.
Susan Petroni
10:47 pm on Tuesday, February 28, 2012
Linda - Yes, it is part of our Patch Terms of use policy.
Derek - I have enjoyed your input, but when you post next time, please update your account to include your last name.
And First-Post Last Post -- I don't agree with Jim often either, but you lost credibility when you wrote this would be your first and only post and yet you continue to post.
I use my real name. Linda Dunbrack uses her real name; and whether you agree with Jim and Joe Rizoli or not, they both use their real names. If we were having this conversation with you at Town Meeting or at a school, we would be able to see who you are even if you didn't give your name. This way, we don't have any clue who we are having a conversation with.
My recommendation is best to ignore "First Post, last Post" just like you would ignore a poster you find offensive; unless he or she chooses to post their first and last name.
David Nolta
12:05 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Susan, I respect the policy. I use my real name. But I must say that I also sympathize with those people--perhaps timid, perhaps less forthcoming for a good reason--who would rather not risk the sort of intrusive follow-up that using your real name can lead to. For example, I was, as I said, flattered that Jim Rizoli took the time to look into my professional activities (which have nothing whatever to do with the topic under discussion here). Nevertheless, the way he referred to those activities in one of his posts above (February 24), complete with the un-subtle capitals and the "wink wink", are the sorts of things that might seem menacing to others, especially if those others have any past experiences with being trailed or scrutinized by strangers (which, it seems to me, we all remain, despite posting our names and opinions here). Similarly, one's gender or family origins might be indicated or suggested and subsequently misinterpreted (and even targeted), despite those characteristics having nothing to do with the topic or the validity of the comments (not to be too pedantic, but great writers--most famously George Sand and George Eliot--chose pseudonyms specifically so as to be treated better than women sometimes are--even now!). So as I said, I respect and comply with the policy myself, but I did think it would be fair to point out that an alias is not necessarily dishonest. The content is what I tend to consider, far more than the name of the contributor.
Susan Petroni
12:26 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
And David -- I agree with you in part.
One of the brothers, cased my house, as they mentioned my neighbor's fence with a hole in it ... (they forgot to mention the leaf pile we have on the side and the fact that we need to power wash the house) but it was obvious they drove by to see where I lived. (and it's my guess they are not the only ones in town.)
I agree when you comment you put yourself out there - as editor I do it for a living, but as a parent I am careful only to post so much ... but I can understand why someone may choose to hide behind a pseudo name or alias, but we have rules and when you attack others you should stand by your words with your name.
We all learned in kindergarten that words can hurt and have consequences.
I respect posters like yourself, Kim and Linda in this thread, who post with their real name and add value to the conversation when they post.
Derek too has added value without attacking.
I respect that also; but if you jump on a site only to attack and hide behind an alias, you are acting like the kindergartener on the playground.
David Nolta
1:17 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Somehow, Susan, I knew I would agree with what you had to say. Thanks for listening.
Jim Rizoli
12:01 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Maureen Maloney testifies at State House today on SB2061-H3913
Immigration Bills
http://tinyurl.com/7dmrj9y
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
12:10 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
David..... we miss you..... what's up?
I like having you post here because you teach me to become a better speller.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Susan Petroni
12:18 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Jim: Play nice!
And answer your emails. I emailed you and you have yet to reply.
- Susan
Jim Rizoli
1:14 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Here is the 40 minute video of the Immigration/bill meeting at the State house today.
This just includes the Milford speakers.
http://tinyurl.com/7gmbyer
Jim@ccfiile.com
Joe Rizoli
1:24 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
David, the "wink wink" was an inside joke for YOU. I wanted you to decipher my hints that we have a famous person on the PATCH. You should be honored.
But I am curious as to what is behind those paintings though..heheheheh
As to what is on the internet about me I could care what is out there. I will discuss anything, I am not embarrassed about my life.
You have to look at yourself David. You've done EXTENSIVE research on the Rizoli's and you have even posted that "research" with links on the PATCH. What those links have to do with ANYTHING on PATCH is beyond me but I have NO PROBLEM discussing those links. One link you had was for the ADL. The ADL representatives came to the Judiciary meeting in Boston for the Immigration bills put on the table by State Rep Fernandes.
The ADL as far as I'm concerned made fools of themselves. I have no problem exposing them. I actually take it as a badge of honor being on their web site.
State Rep Fernande's put the ADL people on the spot by asking some good questions, the ADL people really didn't do their homework, it was obvious.
Joe Rizoli
Jim Rizoli
1:36 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
@Sue....
"One of the brothers, cased my house, as they mentioned my neighbor's fence with a hole in it ... (they forgot to mention the leaf pile we have on the side and the fact that we need to power wash the house) but it was obvious they drove by to see where I lived. (and it's my guess they are not the only ones in town.) "
Sue....
I have NO IDEA what your talking about? Please explain.... what you implying?
If you're referring to one of US, WE have no idea where you live.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Derek from Framingham
10:06 am on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Sorry Susan but I have no plans to put my last name out there (although if you looked at my email address it isn't hard to figure out) - so I guess this is my last post. I understand the rule (which I don't believe was there when I first created the Patch account) should be there if you attack or accuse someone of something. But tell me what did I say or do wrong? Linda - did it really matter that my last name was not on there? I choose to comment on a topic which tends to be very touchy in town. Typically, if you are on the side of the illegals you get the relentless badgering from some individuals - if you are against the illegals then you get targeted as one of the 'bigot' crew. So the only two real choices at the moment are not to say anything or risk be branded in one of the two camps.
Jeff Saben
3:16 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Sort of a long circle of arguments here. Lots of people repeating themselves. But the basis of the letter is that if there were fewer kids in the schools, then school costs would be lower. No arguing that. But I don't understand how that is achievable. There's really no way any town can stop illegal immigration. Immigration is a national issue. Mr Rizoli should write a letter to his Senator and Congressman.
Jim Rizoli
5:11 pm on Wednesday, February 29, 2012
Easy to stop....I have presented a few warrant articles in the past to curtail it, but the Town and the liberal TMMembers squashed them and most likely will do so in the future. What is good for the Town is not what is implemented.
The Town is the way it is because the majority of the people want it that way.
So we have to deal with the after affects. Our Congressmen and Senators are in bed with the illegals...so I guess that takes care that point. At least the Milford Reps. are doing something.
Our Reps should be ashamed of themselves for the what they have allowed to go on here. Our new Rep. Chris Walsh seems to care so we will see what happens on his side. His predesessor Pam Richardson made a pretty good mess of things by not speaking out against it.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
11:16 am on Sunday, March 4, 2012
There were two articles in the paper today dealing with illegal immigration.
This link below is Maureen Maloney's comment/
There is another from Lorenzo Lazcana that I can't seem to find that gives the illegal aliens side of the story. I do have some rebuttal to that one if I can find it.
For instance he said 6th bullet down in column.. Here is his rational for the problem
"The U.S. has implicitly allowed us to overstay the terms of our visas by several years"....
This is preposterous! He's blaming the US for them breaking the law because they didn't take action sooner by clamping down on them.....Incredible reasoning!
http://tinyurl.com/88jqprh
Jim@ccfiile.com
Jim Rizoli
11:23 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
Article about illegals that was just added to MWDN
Maureen Maloney was the first one this is the second one
http://tinyurl.com/749yra8
jim@ccfiile.com
Maria Gutemberg
1:50 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Always an interesting debate. I'm impressed with Kim's stats; thanks, Kim.
Children in school are... children in school.
I was an illegal immigrant child in school. Both of my parents worked. Both paid taxes. All of my illegal immigrant friends had parents who worked 2, 3 jobs. They all paid taxes.
Unless you get paid completely under the table, you're paying taxes. We aren't in California; the majority of the jobs taken by illegal immigrants here are not in agriculture, but in the services industry. The Dunkin Donuts' of the world. Trust me; all the illegal immigrants working in reputable companies are paying taxes.
We can discuss the issue of having to teach children of illegal immigrants and the added expenses to the school system IF we also look for figures in the contributions that the illegal immigrants make to state and federal revenue. Because we shop, and rent, and buy, and drive, and vacation, and pay taxes just like everyone else.
Jim Rizoli
2:15 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
First of all it's against the law for an illegal alien to work in this country PERIOD!
They are able to because they use FALSE SS numbers and other FALSE documents. Not a good thing IMO, but if this is how you want to live good luck to you.
Yes, some do pay taxes but are the taxes they pay worth more than what they get back. Simple answer no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KjvYkb8ykk
Jim@ccfiile.com
Maria Gutemberg
2:50 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Yes, by law and by definition, illegal aliens cannot work. Thank you for stating the obvious, Jimmy Poo Bear.
There is no "simple answer" - in the real world. We would need to gather stats on their contribution side, as was done by Kim on the school system expense side. We know you prefer to spew your Imagination Land Concoctions as "simple truths", but it seems to me people prefer facts.
Interesting thoughts:
I hear Framingham was a ghost town before the "immigration boom of the 90's" and the subsequent influx of new businesses, the sales of homes, and the accompanying town revenues. I hear the Chamber of Commerce thanks the Brazilian community for its entrepreneurship. I hear 85% of businesses in the downtown area are immigrant-owned.
And if all their kids are attending school and loving life as Americans... all the more reason to support the president's executive order.
I'm happy to report I am about a week away from packaging and submitting my application. I'm beyond excited.
Jim Rizoli
3:14 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Maria....You beat the system. Sad to see people can break the law and get away with it.
Downtown is run by one group of people, I sure don't see any diversity there.
In my mind diversity is made up of several groups but I guess having one group other than American is called diversity to you.
If it were made up of all "White Anglo Americans" you'd be calling it a racist town.
But being made up of 85% Brazilian ( your figure) I guess it's now acceptable.
Jim@ccfiile.com
Maria Gutemberg
3:21 pm on Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Clarification for all the other people reading this thread: I stated that downtown Framingham businesses are 85% immigrant-owned.
Figure is from a WBUR article from 2010 (http://www.wbur.org/2010/09/20/framingham-immigration-challenges)
I'd love to read something relevant from someone. I can only speak of my experiences and those of my friends. I'd love to read more stats.