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Local Voices

Cats and Guns

I wonder, what is the correalation between a cat owner, especially one who allows the cats to roam, and gun ownership?

Cats, by recent studies at 21 different locations, kill 14.7 billion small animals including 2.4 billion birds annually in the United States. This is the single largest cause of small animal mortality. A cat is a killing machine. That is way more than the number of people killed by guns in the US every year which is only in the tens of thousands. There are several comparisons of interest here. And remember, the debate is over personal "freedom" and not public safety.

The cats kill domestic pets, wild birds and small mammals. They don't seem to give a fig for other cats which would be a blessing if they did kill each other. Cats are a vermin laden ceature whose feces carries a worm that will kill small children. That worm burrows its way into the brain and causes a painful death. If you have a cat and an infant, you are a reckless person. At least as reckless as a person who also owns a gun and a child. Such a person, I am sure, would rather give up the child than either the gun or the cat.

Perhaps the cat/gun owner or either one separately is a believer, and I use that word in its most perjorative sense, that the cat/gun will protect them from home invasion. Let's look at the results of the numbers killed. They defy such speculation. Cats' victims are not nasty vermin like Norway rats which inhabit many cat owners' homes. They are innocent small creatures. Gun owners' victims are overwhelmingly people they know or have a connection to. Home invaders are not even on the radar! Even if these people had a "home invasion" in reality it would be a person whom they have bedded or otherwise  tricked. In both cases, a selfish person is defending against an imaginary threat at the expense of a peaceful and fruitful world. 

When I was on the leash law exploratory committee in the 1970's I insisted the proposed law that was a bill of attainder and was illegal. A bill of attainder is a bill that names a specific person or group. So, my argument was that unless all domestic pets are regulated no pet can so be. You can imagine the screeching mews coming from the cat owners. Even at this late date, the Selectmen remain extremely species prejudiced despite the overwhelming evidence of cat nuisance.

This comparative study will help explain the gun issue. They are morally the same. Personal freedom to wage war on man and nature trumps public health and safety every time.

MrMilford

8:00 am on Thursday, January 31, 2013

Carl, this is your best Patch blog to date.

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andyhamm77

1:11 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013

Kills the cats! Kill the cats!

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Andy Koenigsberg

1:10 pm on Friday, February 1, 2013

I own three cats and three guns.

However, that the cats and the guns stay locked in the house at all times, and are confined to a sturdy plastic case with a handle when I take them out of the house. The cats can roam the veterinarian’s exam room and the guns can only be pointed downrange at the rod and gun club.

I have always believed that personal freedom comes with personal responsibility.

Same with owning a cat.

Same with owning a gun.

Great blog post Carl.

(http://northborough.patch.com/blog_posts/i-am-a-gun-owner)

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Proud Resident of Northborough

8:53 am on Saturday, February 2, 2013

I don't mind normal cats. What I don't understand is why ANYONE needs a black cat. Black cats evolved only to conjure up bad vibes and bad luck. They are meant only for witches and sorcerers to inflict misery on others. The average person should not be allowed to possess these harbingers of doom. How many more must have their lives ruined by black cats before we take action? If you REALLY want a black cat, join the local coven and get the proper training. It's time to stop the insanity.

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Proud Resident of Northborough

8:53 am on Saturday, February 2, 2013

And while we are at it. What about those double pawed cats? What cat needs 80 claws instead of 40? What purpose other than to inflict more damage on our fine feathered friends? Wake up people! Have you no shame? Time for a National ban on doubled clawed cats.

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Andy Koenigsberg

5:04 pm on Saturday, February 2, 2013

I had a polydactyl black cat - one of the best pets I ever had, so ttthhpppp on you.

Paul Bishop

11:56 am on Sunday, February 3, 2013

House cats are great.. But we ought to be able to prevent people from owning Bengal Tigers, even though they are also cats.

We have laws that define what a legal house cat is. We also have laws and documents which define what a "well armed and regulated militia" is:
" Militia members were to arm themselves with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack. Men owning rifles were required to provide a powder horn, 1/4 pound of gunpowder, 20 rifle balls, a shooting pouch, and a knapsack." - Militia act of 1792. It should also be noted that those allowed these weaponry as a militia were "white males between the ages of 18 to 45."

Twenty four bullets TOTAL, in a weapon that is single shot. Funny, I don't see "semiautomatic rifle with a 36 round magazine" there anywhere. And this was considered MILITARY... This was the National Guard until 1903.

Well armed militia meant twenty four bullets and a single shot gun.

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Michael Soares

12:29 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Mr. Bishop, this regulation i believe is what the federal government was supposed to provide the militia men when called up for service to country or how they should be armed themselves, not sure which, but it set minimum and it was not to set a maximum of arms allowed. Please do not take things out of context.

The first Act, passed May 2, 1792, provided for the authority of the president to call out the militias of the several states, "whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion from any foreign nation or Indian tribe

Dennis Wilson

6:01 pm on Sunday, February 3, 2013

NRA CEO and executive vice president Wayne Lapierre testified before Congress in 1999. He stated that the NRA supports background checks.

Watch the Super Bowl commercial:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/02/mayor-bloombergs-gun-control-super-bowl-commercial-goes-after-nra/61733/

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Michael Barrett

7:52 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

The background system doesn't work now, why would you expand something that is broken?

Proud Resident of Northborough

6:01 pm on Sunday, February 3, 2013

And that is the point Paul. So called assault rifles are no different than any other semi auto rifle. They only look different (like the black cat). And because the _look_ scary, some folks want to ban them.

Regarding your comments on the militias. The idea at the time was to guarantee the populous the ability to defend themselves against the government if necessary. No where did it limit them in what they could have. It gave _minimum_ standards of preparedness. Today's soldiers don't carry muskets any longer, there weaponry has evolved. If we agree that the citizens still have a right to defend themselves, then shouldn't there means of doing so evolve also?

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Medvegas

10:21 pm on Sunday, February 3, 2013

I don't see any rational point to this blog. "people killed by guns in the US every year which is only in the tens of thousands". Really "only" 30,000+ Americans are killed a year by guns.

The debate is over personal freedom not public safety. You can't discuss one with out the other. If the debate is over freedoms and not public safety can we talk about why I'm not free to drink a 30 pack of Corona, do a 8ball then drive the wrong way on 128 at 5:30 in the afternoon.

Proud Resident of Northborough there is a huge difference between assult rifles and semi auto rifles. Assult rifles are a selective fire rifle. You can select from fully automatic, semi auto, and burst. Examples are a m16, ak-47, and stg 44. They look scary because they are scary weapons.

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Michael Barrett

8:58 am on Monday, February 4, 2013

Of gun deaths, 18,000 or so are suicides, there are thousands more were the deaths were justified self defense. Of the 11,000 homicides 70% of those are gang related and other criminals killing each other.

.6% of gun deaths are with so called "assault weapons". There is a huge difference between semi auto and real assault (military) rifles. The public doesn't have real military assault rifles, they are illegal.

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Michael Soares

12:59 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

The military considers an assault rifle a selective fire rifle yes. HOWEVER the federal government and most states defines assault "weapon" as many things, including but not limited to any rifle that is semi auto that any 2 features defined in the 1994 assault weapons ban. It also includes any shotgun that has a tube magazine able to hold more than 5 shots and any pistol that has a magazine that extends further than the pistol grip.

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Michael Barrett

7:56 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Michael Soares - No, there are no such things as "assault weapons" at the federal level. There are the made up things in a handful of states who see it fit to ban a rifle because of cosmetic features.

Paul Bishop

8:02 am on Monday, February 4, 2013

Resident, what has to be admitted and addressed is that a person who is intent on owning a military rifle or a weapon that is made to look like one is a person whose intended use is to show off and/or kill people. If the person is buying the weapon to show off and intimidate, that is not safe or reasonable gun ownership.

Your statement is that the military styled weapons are no more dangerous, and I agree, but the people who pay four times the price to buy the military styled weapon are NOT as benign as those who buy the non-military styled weapon.

In Newtown, the kid grabbed the AR knockoff because it LOOKED intimidating and deadly.. There were others to choose from- but the MENTALITY of military weapon is what attracted him. We have to be honest with ourselves. If a person wants a machinegun or a weapon that looks like one, we the public OUGHT to know who this person is, and most likely they don't have a legitimate use other than overcompensation for tiny and/or grossly misshapen private bits.

Please explain the SOURCE of the both the act and the amendment: The Whiskey Rebellion and Shays rebellion. Never was it intended that a citizen should access all military weaponry... You couldn't have, as a private citizen, cannon or artillery.. or private ownership of militarily equipped sailing vessels.

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Michael Barrett

9:26 am on Monday, February 4, 2013

You want gun registation? No, not a chance. I will not tell the gov't want I own, it is none of their business. You want this because something looks scary? Give me a break. Just the AR 15 platform rifles, there are 3 million plus of those and "assault" weapons covered by ban proposals are used in 1/2 of 1% of gun deaths.

They are a non story and bans are going no where. Any ban on those or high capicity magazine would be unconsitutional anyway.

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aycaramba

10:44 pm on Monday, February 4, 2013

Fewer guns!!! More education!!!!

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Andy Koenigsberg

12:06 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Michael - Actually, a ban on types of guns is already in place - people cannot own machine guns. The Supreme Court ruled just a couple of years ago that although the second ammendment does guarantee the right to have a gun for self defense, their ownership can be regulated. If limits on the size of gun magazines were unconstitutional, the MA law limiting magazines to 10 rounds would have been thrown out long ago.

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Michael Soares

12:59 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

To Andy, if machine guns are already banned then why do they want to ban these ar-15s that can not be selective fire like the military uses. And again, Paul your ignorance disappoints me. There are many legitimate reasons to want to own an assault weapon. Including BECAUSE IT LOOKS SCARY. If someone doesnt leave you or a family member alone, simply answer the door holding this and they will get the point.

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Michael Barrett

8:03 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Andy Koenigsberg - You actually can own a machine gun if you go through the hoops of the long process with the ATF and get approved. I believe there are 4000 people who have the ATF approval. Pretty much gun ranges and firearm instructors. No one wants one though, they just burn ammo.

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Michael Barrett

8:19 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Andy Koenigsberg - The 10 round mag limit has not been challenged in court. There is no rational for the 10 round limit other then it's a nice round number. Moronic. Cops, FBI, other agents have magazines that hold 15, 17, depending on the particular pistol and they have 30 rounders for their rifles. The law biding public deserves the same.

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aycaramba

7:16 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Until (that classic moment) when they are no longer the law-abiding public!!!!

Neighbor

12:24 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Yup @ Andy. I let Michaels comment go because I thought we all knew automatic weapons were banned but it seems some do not. I am aware though that collectors can file paperwork to own automatic weapons so it seems to me that it isn't an outright ban. it has loopholes. My question is where do we stop? 10 rounds? 7 rounds? a single round? Yes smaller magazines mean less bullets in said gun and then the need to reload but it will not stop shootings. It may make some crazy people carry more clips if they set out to kill a bunch of people. If you look at recent shootings the shooters grabbed whatever they could and brought multiple weapons so each gun even with a 5 round clip adds up. I still thnk people are reacting emotionally not sensibly. Just my thoughts.

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Michael Barrett

8:19 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

First, please do not call them "clips", they are magazines. Clips are holders for some rounds that can go into a magazine.

There are no "loopholes" in the allowance for automatic firearms. It's an ATF process that is long and very restrictive.

Limits on magazine sizes only limit the ability of the law abiding person to defend themselves, their family or property. The woman in Georgia defended herself and child against a predator in their home in January. She has a 6 round revolver, fired all six round hitting the intruder 5 times. He still managed to get out of the house and drive down the street. Even if she had a MA compliant 10 round pistol. Say there were 2 or 3 intruders? She could very well be dead along with her child.

What size magazine does someone need? What they deem necessary to defend themselves, their family, etc. I do not know what a persons needs are, nor does anyone else especially some idiot politician.

Michael Barrett

8:32 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

The other thing with magazines people need to understand is, they are a little piece of sheet metal and a spring. They are not complex, they are as basic as you can get. A person with minimal ability could make some in their garage in an afternoon.

There are also MILLIONS of magazines. Literally over 30 million of them. Right now they are all sold out everywhere. A report I saw last week said there is a 1 million count back order on high capacity magazines right now. There is a huge run on everything. If you go to a gun store, 75% of their stock is sold out. The firearm makers are running at 100% capacity and cannot keep up with the demand.

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Michael Barrett

8:32 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

The only part of the economy doing well under Obama is the Gun industry. Obama is the biggest gun salesman in the history of the world.

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Michael Barrett

9:06 pm on Tuesday, February 5, 2013

Oh yeah in 1998 when Massachusetts passed very strict gun control, the number killed by guns was 65. But in 2011, after 13 years of very strict gun control the number of gun deaths was 122. Assault with guns are up significantly, armed robberies are up a lot, and so on.

So gun control doesn't stock criminals for killing, robbing or raping. No law will stop someone from killing or raping, etc. They are criminals, they do not follow the law and adding a few more will do nothing but pester law abiding people.

Leave the lawful gun owners alone and go after criminals and illegal guns.

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Paul Bishop

7:46 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Mike, you can provide no justification for your standpoint other than 'I want it'.

Just how bad a hunter are you that you need so many bullets, Mike? If your aim is that bad, you should not be allowed a gun simply due to public safety.

I was a JNRA member, ten years as a NRA member, grew up hunting (Wisconsin) and though I sold them a few years back, I have owned guns most of my life.

Do you understand that it is lunatic rants like yours that will actually lead to more restrictive gun laws?

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Michael Barrett

9:24 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

What the heck are you talking about? You sound like Obama or Biden talking about hunting. The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting. When it was written, everyone hunted, if you didn't hunt, you didn't eat.

Do you know what others needs are? You do not. If you live in Texas or Arizona where there are many kidnappings and murders related to the drug cartels. Do you think you are ok with a 10 round magazine? Or do you want 30 rounds. When the police abandoned areas in New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, do you want 30 round to protect yourself?

I nor anyone else needs to justify what I need to protect myself and my family. You have a liberal view that the gov't and others know better than the peasants what they need or should have. They don't and you don't.

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Michael Barrett

9:24 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

"Do you understand that it is lunatic rants like yours that will actually lead to more restrictive gun laws?"

Oh yeah, Obama, Andrew Cuomo, Deval Patrick, Diane Feinstein, et al really care what the public believes. Obama has been against the 2nd Amendment and gun rights his entire political career dating back to the mid 1990's, Feinstein was the originator of the AWB and wants to eliminate public gun ownership if possible, etc.

Andrew Cuomo was in such a rush a few weeks ago to pass unconstitutional knee jerk gun control that they did not exempt police and federal agents from the bill. They introduced the bill, passed it through the house, senate and the governor signed it in less than 24 hours. No public hearing, heck the lawmakers didn't even read the bill as they received the long bill minutes before voting on it.

So 1 year from today with the current NY state law, no one would be allow to have more than 7 bullets in a magazine. The public cannot and no law enforcement, federal, state or local.

The MA gun murder rate is a perfect study to show the gun death rate has NOTHING to do with gun laws. There is no correlation between gun laws and gun crime rates.

Michael Soares

8:08 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Paul, there are a couple of Michaels here commenting, and I don't think your last comment was aimed at me but I'd like to respond. The notion that guns are only for hunting is a straw man arguement. I don't hunt. I own guns as a "just in case" resource just like my 7 days of water and food the red cross recommends. Things happen. I truly hope I never need to use my guns but I also have a family to consider. I see that you are a good person and are very concerned about the public but the average gun owner should be your ally, not enemy. We want criminals off the streets as much as you do. But you put us in a defensive mode when you attack our motives, state of mind, and character. With that said there is room for improvement, I just don't think bans are the most effective means.

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Neighbor

9:07 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

@Michael Soares, Well Said!

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Michael Barrett

9:31 am on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

The number of gun owners who are hunters is only 19%. Like you, I own firearms but do not hunt (I have never been hunting). My firearms are not for hunting, they are for sport/target shooting and defensive.

I understand why some people who are not familiar with guns (not paul but others) are for various gun control measures. We all want less violence, gun related or other types of violence. Heck everyone would like world peace too but we know that is a fantasy because there are bad people around the world. Criminals are not going to follow the law, more gun laws to not stop someone who is already breaking existing gun laws and committing other crimes like murder or rape.

Going after gun OWNERS who are the only ones these gun proposals go after (Linsky from Natick said that, "we need to restrict gun ownership") are only going after legal law abiding citizens. There are bans on guns in other countries around the world and they still have gun crime. England has a near complete gun ban yet gun crime is very prevalent and crime has gone way up since the gun ban. Gun ownership is basically illegal in Mexico yet it has tens of thousands murdered with guns and is a very violent place.

Leave legal gun owners alone and go after the people committing crimes with guns or committing violent crime in general.

Paul Bishop

12:56 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Number one, when it comes to home and property defense, by far the most effective weapon is a shotgun. My preference was a Mossberg 500e, chambered for 410. Not only is it a tremendous brush gun for hunting and very cost effective, NOTHING is more intimidating to an intruder than the sound of a pump shotgun action. Loaded with number six shot, even at interior distances, it requires far less accuracy in the heat of the moment (as the bird shot spreads)- and is also far less likely to kill.

Second, the fact is that the illegal guns are out there because of supposed "responsible" gun owners who weren't. A properly secured gun doesn't get stolen. Sadly the overwhelming number of handgun owners I personally know are incredibly careless with their weapons.

We need to get a better handle on multiple fronts. Fewer on the streets. Better examination of people before we sell them guns. The ability to disarm and/or refuse to arm those under treatment for mental disorders.

What we don't need is irrational screaming.

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PREDATOR

2:02 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

As a responsible gun owner I recommend leaving the scatter gun in the safe, I prefer to have control over all projectiles leaving the muzzle, therefore I keep my 1911 .45acp handy loaded with 185gr JHP.

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Michael Barrett

3:41 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

PREDATOR - What you see fits you best is fine by me. Whether you want a 1911, shotgun, AR, etc. is up to you. You are a law abiding person and you know your needs and what is necessary better than I or anyone else. Gun owners should have the freedom to buy what they want and criminals and people who use guns illegally should be prosecuted and in jail.

Michael Soares

1:38 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

The mossberg is a fine home defense weapon. But who are you to tell me what's best for me and my family? To your second point I agree. At one point most of those illegal guns were in the hands of people who legally owned them (unless smuggled in). This is where you and I can have some common ground. What can be done to prevent the transfer from the legal owner to the illegal owner. This state issues licenses. I think once you have a license you've passed the background check and unless its revocked it should be gtg. There are already laws on the books about securing weapons when not in use. What we need is better enforcement of current laws.

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Michael Barrett

5:03 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Michael Soares -

"What we need is better enforcement of current laws." Exactly. Diane Feinstein, Obama and local politicians here are quick to want new gun laws while they do nothing to enforce the existing. That evil little POS in CT tried to buy a rifle at a Dick's Sporting Goods in CT 3 days before the shooting but when told about the background check he would need, he left. Why didn't the CT police or ATF, etc. make some contact with Lanza at that point? There are people every day who try to buy at a dealer, are rejected but there is no follow up or prosecution for lying on the form, etc. Enforce the existing laws.

Michael Barrett

1:38 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

Home defense a shotgun would most likely be the best option. For property? Depends on the property. A ranch in texas or Arizona, or a business during the riots in south central LA after the Rodney King trial? A shotgun would not be the best option an AR or AK would probably be best. But the reason why people need options is because situations are different. Do many around here have a need for a 50 caliber handgun? Probably few. But in Montana, Alaska and other areas it is something that is fairly common.

You want to legislate morality. You sound like a liberal who thinks they can pass a law and get people to live morally because of some law. That's foolish. And gun safes and gun locks are not perfect. It doesn't stop all theft. There are laws against straw buyers, they are rarely enforced. On the state level in MA there are all kinds of laws but gun crime and violence is much higher than when it was passed in 1998.

The mental disorders aspect depends on the details. It needs to be narrow to restrict people who are a clear danger and not just used as a way to disarm people who were depressed 5 years ago after a divorce, death in the family, etc.

What we don't need are laws aimed at legal gun owners. Fewer on the street? Illegal guns yes, restricting lawful ownership? NO! Any laws need to be directed at the criminals, that is the only issue that will make a difference.

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PREDATOR

5:03 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

I agree...I just thought it odd that the guy , Paul Bishop, who wants my freedoms limited was ok with spraying lead all over his own house....I prefer to choose my targets and not hit anything else.

Paul Bishop

12:48 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Amazing the words you are trying to put in my mouth. Sorry, but your foolish rants make it clear that though I don't want to limit the rights of legal, responsible gun owners, I think it is in the public interest to make sure that YOU don't have anything more dangerous than a pillow.

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PREDATOR

12:57 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

(1) I said nothing....rather you did: "Resident, what has to be admitted and addressed is that a person who is intent on owning a military rifle or a weapon that is made to look like one is a person whose intended use is to show off and/or kill people. If the person is buying the weapon to show off and intimidate, that is not safe or reasonable gun ownership."
(2) As for rants....please refer to the length of your posts....again....your posts.

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Michael Barrett

1:31 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

PREDATOR addressed your quote. There are over 3 million AR 15's alone, nevermind AK's, SKS's, etc. They are used in 0.6% of gun deaths. They are a non issue other than people who want to ban all guns like feinstein, obama, etc are obsessed with them and the media because of the way they look. They are semi auto rifles that function like most others.

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Michael Barrett

1:31 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Paul, why is everything a "rant". We are just going back and forth calmly. You are the one who is getting excited, not us.

PREDATOR

1:12 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Sorry....(3)" Loaded with number six shot, even at interior distances, it requires far less accuracy in the heat of the moment "

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PREDATOR

3:05 pm on Thursday, February 7, 2013

Were I to spray and pray, my choice would be a Mossberg 590 12ga. Any responsible gun owner knows that you never shoot to wound. The 590 takes care of that.

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Neighbor

2:44 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Well, Buckle up. News outlets are reporting Obama is going to use Executive Order to pass some controversial things that HE feels are good for the country. 1. Gun laws 2. Immigration reform and 3. Gay rights. Now It doesn't matter how I feel on any of those issues but the fact Obama is going to circumvent Congress to pass what HE things is right fo the country makes me nervous. Feels alot like a dictatorship. He decides what is good for us? I thought in the U.S. the FREE people got to vote on things. Didn't he pass Obamacare this way? by going around congress. The good thing is a court just ruled some of Obamas past sneaky deals were unlawful so we shall see.

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Tree Hugger

4:14 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

As far as gay rights, he may try to give health care to gay spouses of military now. The SCOTUS is due to rule on the whole thing in June anyway, so unless they reject it flat out, I don't see Obama making any changes until after that.

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aycaramba

10:57 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Are you serious? You think the majority gets to decide on whether a self-avowed minority is protected by the Constitution? How nice that YOU believe gays should be allowed to marry, but the President should not insist on their rights if a majority don't agree.

Neighbor

4:58 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Tree Hugger, I have no problem with anyone getting healthcare or being able to wed IF it is voted on by the people. You say gay spouses? Were they legally married? If gay marriage isn't legal where they are then they are not legal spouces but partners like a boyfriend or girlfriend. Once they are legal they should get all the benefits that anyone else gets but that needs to be voted on by the people. I think everyone should be able to marry but I want all this voted on so the laws represent what the people want not just what one side wants. Personally I find the debate about gay marriage going on today disgusting. Did we not learn anything from the civil rights movement? People are people and sexuality (like color or religion) shouldn't matter at all. They should be able to marry and be afforded the same benefits as anyone else. BUT Obama shouldn't be able to tell the people what is right because he thinks it is. The people should vote and they will do the right thing!

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Jim O'Connor

8:31 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Neighbor, what did you learn from the civil rights movement? If we had waited for civil riights to be voted on by the people we would still be waiting.

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Michael Barrett

8:43 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Yeah, it took a while because the Democrats filibustered civil rights legislation. All the southern racists were Democrats, many were also in the Klu Klux Klan too.

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aycaramba

10:57 pm on Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Are you serious? You think the majority gets to decide on whether a self-avowed minority is protected by the Constitution? How nice that YOU believe gays should be allowed to marry, but the President should not insist on their rights if a majority don't agree.

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aycaramba

7:16 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Oh, were "all the southern racists Democrats", Michael Barrett? Most of them were CONSERVATIVES. And I suppose Robert Kennedy was a Republican in your view. And yet, Robert Kennedy, the DEMOCRAT brother of one of the great DEMOCRAT presidents of the US did more for the Civil Rights movement than most other government officials. Racism isn't party-specific. Stop pretending that you can use any stick to beat anybody you want. Play fair for a change. OPEN your mind, instead of showing us all how little it contains.

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Michael Barrett

7:16 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

aycaramba - Marriage is not a right and not protected by the Constitution.

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Michael Barrett

11:46 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

aycaramba - The fact is all the racists down south were Democrats. Bull Connor turning the dogs and fire hoses on blacks? He was a democrat. George Wallace the racist Alabama Governor? A Democrat. All the klansmen were democrats. Hugo Black the democrat FDR put on the supreme court was a klansman. Woodrow Wilson the Democrat President was a vile racist. And the Dem's loved Klansman Senator Robert Byrd till the day he died a few years ago. They said such glowing things about the racist democrat. He was the klans grand kleage and exalted cyclops.

In the obit, the NY times called Robert KKK Byrd "the pillar of the senate". Here's what the Democrat wrote his a Democrat Senator when he was younger. http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/28/sen-robert-byrd-not-only-was-a-kkk-member-but-led-his-local-klan-chapter/

I wonder why the Dem's loved him all those years?

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Borden Wicks

12:19 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013

The fact is most of the hate groups now are conservative based. Tell us where the KKK alliances now stand Michael? What happened to the Grand Ole Party of racial tolerance you believe existed. "All racists down south were democrats." That's as ridiculous a statement as, all racists down south are now Republicans. Although the second statement is proving to be more accurate!

aycaramba

7:16 am on Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Excellent and thought-provoking post, Carl!!!

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