I started my day reading two brilliant commentaries in the Patch, one by Bruce Tretter, and this one by Andy. Both should be in mass circulation publications. Both show wonderful humanity and personal revelation.

I am again in a funk. Here it is Christmas Eve. My shopping is done and reservations at ChengDu made. Ten days ago I was devastated by what happened in Connecticut. All I could see were my grand kids in the pics, and having helped train many teachers at Trinity College back in the 80s I kept wondering if any of my former students were in any way harmed, directly or indirectly (none were).

Today’s funk is Webster, NY. Two firemen were murdered in cold blood responding to a trap. Having worked as a Rotarian to support GEMINI (gemininow.org), a Westborough Rotary led EMS training program in developing countries, for several years, and having been treated to a ride in a Westborough ambulance after a bad fall last month, I kept wondering if we will soon be told by industry lobbyists to put machine guns in all ambulances (and fire trucks) in addition to arming kindergarten or choral teachers. This madness must be stopped. If you are a gun owner, like Andy, please join him and many NRA members. Speak out for sanity and pragmatic American solutions. The world is watching. Merry Christmas.

I also want to point out that the person had a criminal background and 1. should have either still been in prison or at last supervised and the even more obvious. 2. Not allowed to have weapons. This just goes to show we need real answers because crazy ciminals will get weapons even with a ban. This shows even more clear we need to protect our children! I am so upset about the Newtown incident and this and I so wish it would go sway but it isn't. We need more gun laws and to revamp the countries mental health laws but we also need to protect kids with REAL protection not wished and laws but defend them with countermeasures that can deter an attacker. I am very upset about all the violence.

I agree with some of the points in the post BUT if a teacher is armed and even slows down an attacker so some children can escape it is saving lives. Do we just let them get killed? Also you say guns in schools aren't the place to start the place is with gun laws? Gun laws were ignored in both todays fireman shooting and the Newtown shooting. Laws tak years to pass and will no get the guns already on the street off the street. Laws are only good if people follow them. Killers don't follow laws!!!

Thanks Andy for a great blog post-thoughtful and immediately approachable. I too am a licensed gun owner who believes that regulation is necessary. I guess my concern is that we have some 'outlaw' sections of population who will have access to any size guns no matter what the law says. Also some in inner city communities are coping with gun violence and murder every day of the year- awful to say but it's become an everyday happening and largely ignored by the media.
Now I get to the media and their slavish coverage of violence and mayhem and sickening self serving comments comments by talking heads. NRA leader LaPierre is correct about one thing (and that's about all) violence permeates our culture- videos and video games and movies that belong in a sewer.
Incidentally - how many school districts already have police in them- I'd guess more than we realize. Thanks again Andy.

Been in a Massachusetts police station that has been built in the past 10, maybe even 20, years?
What do you see? A dispatcher behind bullet-proof (resistant?) glass...cameras...heavy doors with only a small pane of glass and controlled by a buzzer and a remote release. What kind glass is in the exterior windows of police stations?
And police stations have guns and people trained to use them. I bet they even have a plan for a situation if a shooter comes in the front door. And that includes an empty lobby with no place for a shooter to take cover.

Ed, good question about school districts. The percentage figure that is often mentioned is approximately 25%. Police have been in schools for decades, normally to deal with drugs, student against student violence, etc. And research has been done for a long time. Mass slaughters are a relatively new thing. Here are some good places to look and see good practices:

The CDC school violence website: http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/youthviolence/schoolviolence/data_stats.html

NSSC site: http://www.nssc1.org/

Center for Prevention of School VIolence: http://www.ncdjjdp.org/cpsv/library.html

FBI Resources on School Violence: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/school-violence

Mass Dept of Elementary and Secondary Education's Safe and Health Learning resources: http://www.doe.mass.edu/ssce/safety.html

What is so dispiriting about the NRA is that it suddenly becomes an expert on causation without showing any real sensitivity to the nature of education, research on education and the causes of violence, and the tremendous efforts of researchers, educators, police, and others to address the issues involved. Remember, school violence has been diminishing -- schools are extremely safe places for kids -- but when a 'big one' like Newtown comes along there are outbursts of hysteria, political self interest, breast beating and, of course, commercial self interest. Tis America after all. This is why Andy's piece is so good. It causes us to think deliberatively.

Dliberate thinking is excellent. Lack of action disguised as delibertate thinking gets people killed.

Thanks Ron for the thoughtful comments.

In a previous post I commented on over 740 gun laws totally posted by State, Federal and Local governments. These laws aren't strictly enforced. In MA, e.g., The Fox -Bartley Law; too many loopholes. As to gun attacks on police and firefighters, this is not new. our family used to live In NY state in the 60's and 70's during the riot period. The cops and jakes were called to fires. Upon arrival, the men were fired on by by bushwhackers from roof tops. The end result-the jakes were authorized to carry weapons. This unauthorized use of weapons is disgraceful! Eliminate the loop holes. Enforce the laws!

"...seven years ago, under pressure from the gun lobby, Congress blacked out the information by passing the so-called Tiahrt amendment, named for Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.). The law removed from the public record a government database that traces guns recovered in crimes back to the dealers.
The National Rifle Association and other gun rights activists say releasing the tracing data unfairly tainted honest businesses by demonizing legal gun sales. Tiahrt and defenders of his amendment say it was backed by a national police union and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which wanted the database to be kept secret to protect undercover officers.
But Bradley A. Buckles, ATF director at the time, said his agency did not ask for the amendment. "It just showed up," he said.
The proposal surprised some members of the House Appropriations Committee when it came up for a vote in July 2003.
After the vote, Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) objected. "It was not the subject of hearings. It has no support from law enforcement. It has no support from Attorney General [John] Ashcroft. It really serves to protect only the most corrupt gun dealers at the expense of all other legitimate gun dealers."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/23/AR2010102302996.html

So repealing the Tiahrt Ammendment could be the first focus of "Citizens for the Second Amendment But Against Insane Gun Policy"?

seems like the Tiahrt Amendment was to stop gun dealers being unfairly sued

y'all know why the 2nd amendment was written and its not for sport shooting,hunting or self defense its to insure the federal government never acted like Great Britain its a deterrent for tyranny and abuse of power... When the redcoats were going to Lexington and concord they were on their way to seize firearms like cannons from the colonists.... why would farmers need cannons or military grade weapons?
if you don't want an AR15 don't buy one but don't punish me for the actions of a criminal who didn't even get his weapons legally, nothing worse the gun control freaks using whatever tragedy to pass or promote their agenda
by the way most mass shootings are a rarity and gun violence has decreased since the assault weapon ban expired(take that to mean whatever)..... a gun is a tool nothing more nothing less, a person with motivation sane or insane to commit a crime will do it regardless of whatever laws or bans are in effect
im not opposed to sensible restrictions however silly restrictions that do nothing like this great state NO thanks
Again if you dont want an AR15 dont buy one but dont intrude on my rights sooo you can have some feel good feeling

ATF? is that the same ATF that allowed the gun running to the mexican cartels you know all those guns they were gonna track then lost them and some people died.

mass shootings have not increased since the assault weapon ban expired, mass shootings are a rarity........... murder rate has also been going down for the last 30 years, more people die in alcohol related deaths each year, i don't see you arguing stricter alcohol laws, taking advantage of tragedy and politicizing for stricter laws that really don't do anything other then give a false sense of security

again i don't see the point of punishing lawful citizens for the actions of criminals

and the term assault weapon is just a term at one point bolt action weapons were assault weapons.......... i don't care what you think the 2nd amendment is for don't infringe on my rights, you don't want an ar15 don't buy one...... if i want to hunker down in my basement with a tinfoil hat, who are you to say i cant and who are you to judge what i do in the privacy of my own home

also how about take some personal responsibility a gun is tool no more dangerous then a car its all about the operator, you don't blame the alcoholism in a drunk driving accident you blame the drunk driver, you know the guy driving or shooting, if you want to blame an inanimate object go nuts but don't infringe on my rights

Andy,

Its all well and good to improve gun regulation but I think we need better security especially at the schools. In Westborough, we have a police officer who goes between the schools and serves as a deterent to nut cases. This security should be tightened in view of Newtown.

Steve

I think it's worth noting that the number one weapon used in violent crimes are BASEBALL BATS, knives, hammers, drunk driving...guns kill a lot less than all of those... and a lot less frequently.

AEO81 -

You can spout Wayne LaPierre's NRA line all you want (and it has not escaped anyone's notice that you do not have the wherewithal to use your own name in your posts) and call me "childish" or whatever makes you feel better, but I stand by my blog posting and my opinion on this issue. Nothing I have said would trample your second amendment rights. I never said you cannot own a handgun, rifle or any other legal firearm. Firearms should be regulated like any other product for sale in this country and the people who sell them should be subject to the same standards. The majority of NRA members actually agree with this stance. However, feel free to keep on ranting to your heart's content. It's not as if I did not expect this sort of response from some readers.

New York Journal News has published an interactive map -- of the names and addresses of registered gun owners in Westchester and Rockland Counties. Putnam County is still developing their list and will provide it to the paper. The Journal obtained the information using a Freedom of Information request. They published a similar list in 2006 and hardly a complaint was heard. This time registered gun owners are screaming that their privacy was violated and refusing to identify themselves when they call the paper to complain.
If I decide to register a car, buy certain cold medications, own property or answer questions asked by the U.S. Census Bureau, I acknowledge that that information will be public (even if it takes 70 years in the case of the Census Bureau).

Are gun owners special?

http://tinyurl.com/cu3o84z

Firearms and the sale of firearms are regulated as a gun owner you should know that......
how about we look a little closer into your stats you keep talking about
2011 Total murders 12,664 total firearms used 8583, total handguns: 6220
rifles 323, shotguns 356 and other guns/not stated 1684
knives or cutting 1694, blunt objects 496 and personal weapons hands,feet 726
soo i could say more people are killed with knives blunt object,hands and feet then assault rifles sooo shouldn't we be more concerned about pistols then sooo called assault rifles
but like most things this is just people banging the drums for whatever cause they are barking about sooo they can feel good about themselves or have that feeling of a superior smug attitude that is all too common in this state
and i aint ranting im giving my opinion nor do i need to prove anything to you about who i am
you obivouly dont know much about AR15/M16 and a 223 is glorified 22 its not that powerful compared to alot of other rounds and the reason the military uses a 556 is its a standard cheap mass produced NATO ROUND

ohhh and those stats dont state if the weapons were bought legally or illegally or how they were aquired

According to an FBI Report the majority of violent crimes (87.5%) are not committed using guns. Of the 12.5% of the violent crimes where guns were used, the vast majority of the guns were obtained illegally. Adding to the 20,000+ gun laws that currently exist will not have any real effect on violent crime. It is the person who commits the violent crime that must be dealt with.

The other side of this equation are the number of instances where violent crimes are stopped by armed citizens. These acts of bravery are seldom reported by the press. If we are going to talk about crimes perpetrated by criminals using firearms we need to also talk about the crimes stopped by honest citizens using firearms as a tool for good

We should be talking about the responsibility that the shooter bears for his actions in this sad story. It is the shooter who pulled the trigger. It is the shooter who went into the school with premeditated murder on his mind. It is the shooter who intended to end the life of these very young children. It is the shooter who should be the focus of repudiation.

Good morning Mike. I hope you and your family had a good Christmas. There are all kinds of things we can and should be talking about, though it is hard for a lot of people to focus on repudiating a guy who is already dead -- and assuredly my anger does include him. I am curious to know from you, an active GOP political figure, what to make of Scott Brown's call for a ban on assault weapons, and the polls which show a significant majority of NRA members opposed to the position taken by that lobby. Are they all misguided, caught in hysteria, etc.? I personally thought the presentation by LaPierre was outrageous, as have many leading Republican voices such as Joe Scarborough, David Frum and the head GOP pollster Luntz. I would be happy to have you tell us what the FBI study is and how we can get it (you know I like to read :-) ). I do believe we need far more clarity about enforcement...and more enforcement of existing gun laws. If you would care to accompany me to Florida next week I would be happy to take you to a weekend gun sale at a huge flea market where weapons can be purchased off the backs of trucks, no questions asked. So many police have been laid off thanks to Rick Scott's budgeting there is almost no enforcement capability. Oh, I do appreciate the fact that you are among those willing to use their real name in this discussion.

states with stricter gun laws does not equate lower rates of deaths from firearms..... go look at the FBI stats again.......... this time don't cherry pick the info you are using to support your points, also most studies will point no correlation between enacting gun laws and gun violence, this is a far more complex issue that goes way beyond further gun restrictions suggesting a 10 round mag is safer then a 30 rd mag is asinine or the stopping power of 223 .....issues like enforcement of current laws,family,culture,faith,values,economic standing and mental health/treatment those are the factors involved in violence and the understanding that like nature somethings are out of our control and will just happen ........ And the assault weapon ban did not ban the sale of AR15's it merely made it so you couldn't get a bayonet lug or a collapsible stock... merely cosmetics things a feel good law that did little i got my AR15 in this great state during the assault weapon ban, brand new from bushmaster legally and I've never committed a crime with it either
and yes most gun owners in the country want sensible laws that make sense and are enforced not more laws that will not be enforced and only punish lawful citizens

First thing, stop trying to put words in my mouth. Second, please provide some back up for anything you are saying, otherwise, it just sounds like a bunch of nonsense blather.

You state that "most studies will point no correlation between enacting gun laws and gun violence". What studies are those and what academic institutes published them?

Second - I never said that a 10 round magazine is "safer" than a 30 round magazine.

Third - Congressional restrictions and underfunding of law enforcement has made it harder to enforce current laws.

I agree with you that most gun owners in the country want sensible laws that make sense. I am one of those gun owners. To me, it makes sense to ban rapid firing weapons that can take large capacity magazines and high power ammo.

You have made your point that you do not agree with my position, but I stand by my point of view.

Most of your points are based on your own bias, you name the study of one school( Actually you dont even do that you just name a school that had done a fist of it kind study) , and the FBI uniform crime report and just picked out the stats to support your own veiw point everything else youve stated is your own opinion not facts

Here is content from Ezra Klein’s recent comprehensive report in the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/ ) that takes up one of the bones of contention here.

“Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/01/the-geography-of-gun-deaths/69354/#

I cannot seem to find the generalization provided by OE081 supported by the FBI uniform crime reports, which do show a horrific relationship between guns and homicides. I suspect that gun laws are akin to drug ones: a myriad of state and federal ones that need to be looked at in terms of desired outcomes, cost and effectiveness. OE081, you would be much more effective if you wrote carefully, let us know who you are, and laid out where you get your information. As it is you just come across as angry and not as rational as you and your argument could be.

these states supposedly have the strictest gun laws California,New Jersey,Massachusetts,Connecticut,Hawaii,New York,Maryland,Illinois,Rhode Island and Michigan
these have the weakest gun laws South Dakota,Arizona,Mississippi,Vermont,Louisiana,Montana, Wyoming, Kentucky, Kansas and Oklahoma
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-20
None of these stats show if the weapon was legally or illegally acquired nor population sizes, but please show me the correlation between strict gun laws and reduced gun violence

Briefly. 'supposedly' can be a slippery and tricky word and 'strictest' is another. And are you showing general crime or homicide? I have the study you mention, and maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see that it addresses or analyzes itself the main point of a relationship between violent crime and specific state laws in any meaningful way. I think you are the one who challenged any assertion Andy may have made on that topic. Anyhow, have you looked at the study I cited? Is it wrong? Again, I think it is important to be very specific in terms of what studies conclude, not just show some top level possible relationships. In any case, even if the point about states can be generally proven (without getting too far into what their laws actually say, how they are enforced, demographics, etc), I am not sure what it really means in terms of the current debate and the value or lack thereof of federal legislation -- maybe we could be better off with federal laws rather than thousands of state ones. Do you think strict gun laws actually lead to more crime? Using your logic we would end crime by ending all laws....(I know some might like that but it will never happen) And right now we are talking primarily about more effective background checks and limits on ammo or, in a 'worst case' scenario; Senator Brown's call to outlaw assault weapons. But good to discuss this. What we want is less weaponry in the wrong hands and in places where we educate little kids.

While I am not totally in agreement with either Ron or some others I have come to resect thier arguments as they are thought out well. Presented without emotion overtaking thier argument (for the most part) I was guilty of it right after the Newtown shooting and have since softened my stance. I think school security has to be looked at from top to bottom and they should use every ounce of reasonable technology to keep the kids safe, including more cameras, buzzers, bullet resistant entry glass (for new school. too expensive to retrofit) and STAFF doors as much as possible. But after I got over my initial emotional response I have rethought my armed guards in schools. I think we need MORE police checking on schools throuhout the day! I have come to this thought because of how rare school shooting are. I also (this has't changed) am still for ALL assault weapons being removed from the street (no one needs one) I have fired them and they are so much fun but each time i go to the shooting range and use thiers. I know a couple of things. the 2nd Ammendment s NOT going away. I am not in fear of it happening in anyway. I am for keeping kids, adults and anything in between safer by getting assault weapons and high capacity clips off the street! I hope we can all come together REALISTICALLY and not out of fear or emotions and do what is right. I see valid arguments on both sides but we need to proect a stop the trend of violence. Thanks. I apolgize for past emotional entries.

Both of the following reactions are knee-jerk in response to the tragedy at Newtown: "We need to get all of these guns under control!" "We need more security and more guns to protect our kids!"

Knee-jerk, emotional reactions are understandable. My son is in the 1st grade, and I'm a teacher. That could have been my son's school or the school I teach at. I remain horrified by the idea of what happened in Newtown.

But emotion and knee-jerk reactions won't solve the problem. Neither will addressing only the symptoms. The problem isn't guns, and while I can agree with closing some of the more egregious loopholes, I support 2nd Amendment rights. Neither is the problem a lack of security in our schools. If we put our children behind armored walls and guards with guns, they will grow up in fear and trust no one. As a teacher, I have ZERO interest in carrying a gun.

Although this part of his blog post has been entirely ignored by some, Andy pointed out, quite rightly, that Newtown and other school shootings have a variety of causes. To me, it all really boils down to our values as a society. Sadly, we place money and profit ahead of people, and in doing so we are creating people who feel the only meaning their lives have is to kill themselves and take innocents with them. We call empathy weakness and wonder why people are callously killing our children.

We also have to have the response tactics by polics looked into to get officers on scene as fast as possible and to get them in the schools as quick as possile. I think this may have been changed after Columbine but not sure. Time=lives and without an armed guard we need to get better at reacting. I cannot help thinking there has to be a way we can put something in a someone in the schools hands to defend the students (but who, and what) Maybe every prnciple has to be trained in no lethal defense with a rubber bullet gun as part of their training, or the PE teacher? I don't kno just typing out loud. But some way so someone can TRY and have something do defend and maybe slow down an attacker until the police get there.

I am pleased to see DGM coming around to being forthright about his concerns, which are complex, and understand where Rich A is coming from, and appreciate his openness about his feelings. The next step is for the most community involvement as possible. My hope was that this horrible event was a 'teachable moment' and I feel that it is becoming that very thing as our initial anger and weariness starts to give way to thinking about practical solutions. At the end of the day this all reflects the America we want to have and live in. We are at out best when we remember two things: we are a democratic country (often sloppy in the way we do things) that is a beacon to the world, and we are a pragmatic country with a great constitution that got us to that place. We will always make mistakes, but if we can respect others and think about how to best serve our children and communities we will prevail. And have more arguments!

With all that good feeling I am signing off. I want to say that we all owe a great debt to Andy for laying so many things out in a very honest and personal way. I can assure everyone that on important issues of the day he will be there, and I will probably chime in a bit as well. Happy New Year to all.

You also Ron!

Thanks to everybody (and I mean everybody) who commented on this posting. At this point, I will ask the editor to shut down comments as I think after four days, everyone has been able to make their point of view very clear.

Thanks Andy! Happy New Year!